7.62x25 Zombie Killer

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  • Last Post 08 September 2011
Ed Harris posted this 31 August 2011

I picked up a surplus Czech Cz52 pistol chambered for the 7.62x25 cartridge. This was an impulse purchase, because the gun was new and cheap. I already reload for .32 ACP, S&W Long and H&R Magnum. The same bullets and powders will work. Why not?

The 7.62x25 Russian cartridge is dimensionally similar to the old .30 Mauser round, but is hotter, about 40,000 vs. 30,000 psi. Both rounds fire the same .308-.309 diameter 85-87 gr., FMJ bullet, but Soviet “burp gun ammo” is too hot for a M96 broomhandle. Current Sellier & Bellot chronographs about 1700 fps in the Cz52, whereas the .30 Mauser round gets about 1300 from a M96 broomhandle, and results in occasional “smokestack” jams when fired in the Cz52 pistol.

Hatcher's Textbook of Pistols and Revolvers (1935) described the .30 (7.63) Mauser round as developing 1250-1300 fps with various brands of US ammunition and up to 1400 with German military loads. Penetration was eleven 7/8” pine boards, versus 4-1/2 boards for the .32 Smith & Wesson Long, 5 boards for the .32-20 Winchester, .32 ACP,.38 Special and .45 Colt M1909 revolver. The .45 ACP and .44-40 each did 8 boards. The .38/.44 High Velocity, 9mm Luger, and .38 Colt Auto each did nine boards. Only the .38 Super Auto and .357 Magnum were able to match the Mauser's eleven boards.

As luck would have it, by the time I received my Cz52 pistol, the seemingly plentiful and endless supply of cheap Combloc surplus corrosive ammo which I had planned to hoard had dried up. People tell me that the quality of much Combloc surplus ammmo, is poor, that I really didn't miss outon anything worthwhile, and that new commercial ammo is much better. So, I bought 500 rounds each of new manufacture PPU (Yugo Privi Partisan) and Sellier & Bellot (Czech) FMJ ammo with reloadable boxer primed cases.

Firing PPU ball ammo outdoors at 25 yards the gun shot to point of aim. An average of ten 8-shot groups averaged 3.5 inches, with the largest group 4.6” and the smallest 2.9” This level of accuracy compares to many typical military handguns firing service ammunition. At 100 yards in three trials I averaged 6 hits out of 8 shots on an Army E Silhouette firing from a two-handed sitting position. Both original mags worked fine, as did also two Triple-K spares which I bought at the same time from Cheaper Than Dirt.

PPU ammo chronographed 1414 fps with a standard deviation over a 16 round sample of 32 fps. I am told by the retailer that the PPU ammo is loaded down “so that it will not blow up a sound M96 Mauser if used unintentionally ”€œ though still NOT recommended.” Czech S-B ammo gave accuracy and point of impact similar to the PPU, but shot flatter, giving 1699 f.p.s. with a standard deviation of only 7 fps over a 16-round sample. Impressive stuff to buy for your “Zombie Hoard."

I then started to experiment with reloading the 7.62x25, and now had empty boxer rimed brass and hoped to accumulate more. Most of the S-B brass is still in low earth orbit over Ohio, but a useful amount of the PPU stuff was eventually found up to 20 feet away from the firing position. New cases are available from Starline, and are of good quality, so I bought 500. These are nice.

Years ago I loaded successfully for the M96 Broomhandle, using RCBS dies and the Lyman #313249 bullet intended for the .32 S&W Long, with 5 grains of Bullseye, as recommended by Lyman. I bought new Lee Dies for the 7.62x25, Federal 200 (small rifle and magnum pistol) primers and some Hornady .30 caliber 100-gr. half-jackets. Fired cases resized with little effort. Case mouths were flared easily and the Hornady half-jackets loaded without difficulty. Overall cartridge length was 1.378. A Lee factory crimp die was used and rotor #9 in the RCBS Little Dandy Measure.

I load 5 grains of Bullseye as a standard charge in many calibers: as a +P .38 Special with 110-grain JHP, as a plinker in the .357 Magnum with any bullet, and as full-charge, lead-bullet loads for the .44 Special, and .45 ACP as as a cast bullet small game load in almost any rifle cartridge from the 7.62x39 and .30-30 to .30-‘06.

With my “standard charge” of 5 grains of Bullseye in the 7.62x25 with the Hornady Half-jacket, velocity was 1240 f.p.s., with a standard deviation of 12 fps over a 16-round sample, with point of impact and grouping comparable to ball ammo, averaging 3.8” for five consecutive 8-shot groups at 25 yards with the largest group 4.5” and the smallest 3.2"

Firing into water filled milk jugs the Hornady half jackets appeared to have expanded little, if at all, as none were recovered, perforating and exiting my entire stack of milk jugs, 48 inches of water in all, the same as ball ammo. Brief trials with 88-grain flatnosed NEI #82 cast bullets same as I use in the .32 Auto, gave 1330 f.p.s. with 5 grains of Bullseye and three of five bullets were stopped in 48 inches of water, with the others exiting. This equates to about 30 inches of gelatin penetration, impressive by any standard.

While Sierra and Hornady make .308-.309” diameter jacketed softpoint bullets suitable for the .30 Mauser and 7.6t2x25, I was reluctant to pay 20 cents a pop just to experiment. Instead I took an extra Lyman #3118 double-cavity, flatnosed .32-20 mold and sent it off to Erik Ohlen at www.hollowpointmold.com for modification. The 88-grain NEI #82 gang mold I use in the .32 ACP and .32 S&W Long resembles a shortened Ideal #3118, which weighs 115 grains in its original .32-20 configuration.

I explained to Erik what I wanted to do, and he came up with a highly successful 82-gr. double-cavity hollowpoint which feeds well, mushrooming nicely from soft 8-10 BVHN at .32 ACP velocity when cast in 8-10 BHN alloy, and providing a “fragmenting varmint bomb” with harder 13-15 BHN alloy when fired from the 7.62x25.

He did this by machining the mold blocks to remove the original base band and bottom lube groove. He then cut a new front driving band .11 wide and .311 diameter ahead of the remaining lube groove to restore some needed bearing surface, shortening the nose somewhat. The HP cavity resembles the form of the Speer 65 gr. Gold Dot for the .32 ACP and using his inset bar conversion, production is as good or better than when casting with the original unmodified double-cavity mold. Bullet shape resembles flatnosed hardball and it feeds in all my pistols like a pony trotting.

Casting the new 82-grain #3118 HP from wheelweights + 2% tin alloy, driving it at 1330 f.p.s. using 5 grains of Bullseye in the 7.62x25, functioning is sluggish, but reliable, dropping empty brass at your feet. Water jug tests were impressive, blowing the first gallon jug to smithereens in a manner similar to 110-grain .357 Magnum loads. The front third of the bullet fragments violently, showering the second and third jugs with multiple secondary projectiles about the size of No.6 birdshot. The base of the bullet flattens to 8mm diameter, weighs 65 grains, like a .32 ACP slug, penetrating into, but stopping in the fourth jug, denting its far side, not exiting. The resulting 30 inches of water penetration for the fragmented stub equates to 18+ inches of water. Adequate penetration for a defense load.

I would have no issues keeping the CZ52 around as a spare defensive pistol. Not fancy, BUT IT WORKS. Now if I cast these out of junk silver, what would they weigh and would they work on vampires?

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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tturner53 posted this 31 August 2011

Very interesting report. I'm wishing I'd got one too. Here's a stretch for ya; in a James Michener novel, 'Alaska', I read long ago, the early Russian fur trappers would line up Eskimos much like we do milk jugs now, front to back, nice and tight. Then wager on the amount of penetration they could get. This was strictly muzzle loader days and so no fmjs, but they could still get a slug thru quite a few Eskimo milk jugs. Besides just being rowdy drunks they wanted to intimidate the natives into doing all their work as far as fur trapping, leaving the Russians free to pilage. I'll even bet somebody did a penetration test with a bow and arrow, lining something or someone up, long ago in a forgotten place. And before that, probably a spear penetration test.

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RicinYakima posted this 01 September 2011

First off, Thanks Ed for the report! The 7.62X25 has always been a blast to load for. Joe and I started when they first came on the market years ago and had fun with them. Since I already was loading for the C96 Mauser, it was easy to use everything for the new pistol, but very careful to keep that ammo away from the C96.

The one I got had a rusted bore, even though the outside looked new. A new barrel was just $29.00 in those days and that included the roller block and bearings. That is why I thought it was so interesting. Joe finally bought the 9MM conversion kit, but it never shot even close to POA. I finally sold mine to a State Trooper with the last 500 rounds of Czech submachine gun ammo I had. He was grinning and giggling when he left my house, so I think he had something planned!

As long as the roller bearings were oiled and wiped clean, and no grease was use, the action would take really hot loads. It wasn't very hard to shoot the 71 grain jacketed 32 ACP bullets 2000 f/s with AA#5. The new barrel was really nice with a .300 bore and .310 groove. It would shoot the RCBS 98 grain SWC with 5 grains of Unique just fine and lay the fired brass 18 inches behind your right heel.

The C96 Mauser is still here, and someday there may be a Spanish Destroyer Carbine in that caliber to match it.

Best wishes,

Ric

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giorgio de galleani posted this 05 September 2011

I would like your opinion on the strange brecch of tis pistol,a friend had one some 40 years ago,but  he never shot it ,he had no place to shoot it.

Thanks to gun control laws.We were allowed only 22lr pistols in those years , in the city of Genoa,Italy..

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RicinYakima posted this 05 September 2011

It appears to me that it is related to the German WW11 MG 42 system. Casehead thrust locks the breech block via two roller bearings working on a wedge. After the bullet has passed the muzzle, and the pressure is dropping, the entire slide is moving to the rear. At a point the wedge begins to pull away from the two roller bearings. At this point the breech block and slide continue back and begin the self loading function.

This really is a locked breech and not a retarded action. The exception is that if you use grease or some modern lubes on the rollers, they will not lock! This leads to broken rollers, early slide action and blown case heads. Everything works fine if you can find an English (Italian?) translation of the original manual and follow it. If you do not, you can have problems with full power loads.

Ric

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Ed Harris posted this 05 September 2011

Ric's description is correct.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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linoww posted this 06 September 2011

Here is my version of a 7.62 x 25 Zombie Killer

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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Ed Harris posted this 07 September 2011

George,

I sure do like your ghetto blaster!

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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sart256 posted this 07 September 2011

I recently got a Soviet surplus Yugoslavian M57 in 7.62X25 and got some surplus ammo from J&G Sales at $90.00 for a tin of 1260 rounds. I believe they go down to 80.00 for 2 or more.

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Duane Trusty posted this 08 September 2011

Ed

I had a fun time with a 52 a few years back.

Surplus ammo was everywhere and cheap. So no loading advice.

One thing, you may want to pick up a spare firing pin as mine, as well 2 others fellows I knew had theirs break.

Duane Trusty

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sart256 posted this 08 September 2011

The Sportsman's Guide has some CZ52 parts, hardened steel firing pins and rollers.

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Ed Harris posted this 08 September 2011

I have the Harrington tool steel firing pin and bolt rollers, but haven't needed to install them yet.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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