cast furnaces

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  • Last Post 24 June 2012
milboltnut posted this 23 June 2011

I was looking at a Lee 110 and 220 drop furnaces. They both only rise to 600 degrees. It's been said that between 700 and 800 is ideal. What say you? I don't mind the wait time, although I thought 220 would be quicker. I would also think that 220 would get hotter. 

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Brodie posted this 23 June 2011

I use a Lee 110V pot and it works fine for me.  I do not have a reliable thermometer, but I have not experienced any casting issues where more heat than the pot would emit could solve a problem.  It is just as good as my old Lyman.

B.E.Brickey

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milboltnut posted this 23 June 2011

Coot,

          so you jack it all the way up and you're good to go?

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CB posted this 23 June 2011

Buy a thermometer. The numbers on the dials are just reference points, not temp indicators. I've had LEE furnaces approaching red hot (by accident), so don't set one at it's highest setting and let it blaze away. Also, LEEs temperature regulation is pretty non existent. There really is no thermostat involved, and the dial settings from unit to unit are often unique. Still, they are the cheapest thing out there, and you can certainly cast adequate bullets with them.

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Brodie posted this 24 June 2011

No I don't use it at the highest setting.  You may have something wrong with your thermostat.  I would call Lee or whoever you got the pot from.

B.E.Brickey

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CB posted this 24 June 2011

I was addressing the OP. I was attempting to explain that LEE furnaces go considerably higher than 600 degrees, and it would be best to not use the pot at it's highest setting.

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delmarskid1 posted this 24 June 2011

I got 900 degrees out of my Lee 20 pond 110v dipper pot last week. It was an accident. I had it set at 8 1/2 out of 9.

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milboltnut posted this 24 June 2011

Manufactures description....

Melt Time: 20-30 minutes to melt lead at 600 degrees F

I thought the max temp.was 600 degress

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CB posted this 25 June 2011

There is recommended temp and then there is max temp. They never advertise max temp.

I know my little hot plate that I use to heat up my molds will reach 1125 degrees F when I put a K Type T/C on it reading the temp with my PID controller.

It all has to do with the wattage of the heating element verses the amount of material being heated. That will also affect the melting time. I have a 75 watt tube heater for my star heater plate and it have a very quick heat up and cycle time.

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milboltnut posted this 25 June 2011

So there's no such thing as too cool of a cast which tends to be wrinkled and don't fill out right, or too hot and becomes frosted and break apart?

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CB posted this 25 June 2011

I have 3 Lee pots for casting one is for pure lead and nothing else, one 10 pounder is for alloyed lead for small runs, my 20 pounder is for alloyed lead for doing production, plus when I do 50 caliber 500 plus grain bullets the big pot doesn't run out as fast.

Jerry

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CB posted this 25 June 2011

milboltnut wrote: So there's no such thing as too cool of a cast which tends to be wrinkled and don't fill out right, or too hot and becomes frosted and break apart? Nobody said that. Wrinkled bullets are usually from a cold mould, or one that has oil in the cavities. Frosted bullets are seen when the mould temps are high. The missing piece here seems to be that mould temperature is important too. Personally, I cast with my alloy at about 800 degrees, and at that temp frosted bullets are pretty common, depending on the mould. Super overheated bullets exhibit heavy frosting, and low resistance when the sprue is cut. I've seen these bullets break apart when dropped from the mould. This is because they're still nearly molten in the middle. If you're encountering this situation, you need to take a break & let the mould cool a bit.

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6pt-sika posted this 25 June 2011

anachronism wrote: milboltnut wrote: So there's no such thing as too cool of a cast which tends to be wrinkled and don't fill out right, or too hot and becomes frosted and break apart? Nobody said that. Wrinkled bullets are usually from a cold mould, or one that has oil in the cavities. Frosted bullets are seen when the mould temps are high. The missing piece here seems to be that mould temperature is important too. Personally, I cast with my alloy at about 800 degrees, and at that temp frosted bullets are pretty common, depending on the mould. Super overheated bullets exhibit heavy frosting, and low resistance when the sprue is cut. I've seen these bullets break apart when dropped from the mould. This is because they're still nearly molten in the middle. If you're encountering this situation, you need to take a break & let the mould cool a bit.  

Yep , I have to agree about the “to hot frosted and breaking apart” thing !

I water drop 95% of the bullets I cast and every so often I will find them in the bucket where they started to seperate close to the base .

One of the easiest ways to not overhaet to quickly (atleast for me) is to run maybe 3 or 4 two/one cavity molds at the same time . However if you water drop as I do thats a pain as you then need to seperate everything after the fact . But if you just air cool no big deal !

With my 5 or 6 cavity molds I use just one or two at a time and it seems to work out okay as far as the cooling thing is concerned .

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Brodie posted this 25 June 2011

ffI have found that with my casting tempo and molds that frosted bullets are a function of both mold heat and ambient temperature.  The colder my garage is the more easily I get frosted bullets.  As long as I cast with two or more molds (of the same material) I don't need to worry about over hot molds to the point where the bullets break when dropped.

Brodie

B.E.Brickey

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Dale53 posted this 26 June 2011

I don't water drop. However, I don't have a mould temperature problem these days. I used to cool the moulds by a variety of methods (you WILL over heat multicavity moulds if you are casting as fast as you should). However, some years ago I added a manicurists fan to my set up. It blows down on my mould where I sit it for a few seconds for the sprue to harden. After the mould is up to heat, I turn the fan on and continue to cast. The fan maintains mould temperature and and allows me to continuous cast without temperature issues.

I bought my fan at the “Target” store for the munificent sum of $7.00. Walmart has a similar fan. Both were found in the fan department (not the manicurists department). It has been a real boon for me:

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milboltnut posted this 26 June 2011

Good point dale..... I'll keep that in mind. Even with aluminum molds they tend to overheat?

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Pigslayer posted this 13 May 2012

Dale53 wrote: I don't water drop. However, I don't have a mould temperature problem these days. I used to cool the moulds by a variety of methods (you WILL over heat multicavity moulds if you are casting as fast as you should). However, some years ago I added a manicurists fan to my set up. It blows down on my mould where I sit it for a few seconds for the sprue to harden. After the mould is up to heat, I turn the fan on and continue to cast. The fan maintains mould temperature and and allows me to continuous cast without temperature issues.

I bought my fan at the “Target” store for the munificent sum of $7.00. Walmart has a similar fan. Both were found in the fan department (not the manicurists department). It has been a real boon for me:

If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.

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CB posted this 13 May 2012

If you're getting frosting in the middle of the bullet on one side, it's probably where the blocks are cut to allow mounting of the handles. This issue drove me nuts for a while until I figured out what causes it.

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onondaga posted this 13 May 2012

I have 2 lee pots and either melts pure lead just fine.

Don't know who told you 800 is ideal. Temperatures over 750 cause the tin in alloys to instantly oxidize on exposure to air even in your flow stream from pot spot or ladle. that oxidation completely nullifies the purpose of the tin in your alloy. The fill out enhancement from tin in an alloy is completely lost at 800 def. F.

If the metal will pour it is hot enough for casting. Mold temperature is correctly maintained with mold warming and casting cadence.  I cast at 600-630 with  Lyman #2 and 2 cavity molds but with 6 cavity molds I go to 700.

Gary

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Duane Mellenbruch posted this 13 May 2012

onondaga wrote: Don't know who told you 800 is ideal.  that oxidation completely nullifies the purpose of the tin in your alloy. The fill out enhancement from tin in an alloy is completely lost at 800 def. F.

If the metal will pour it is hot enough for casting. Mold temperature is correctly maintained with mold warming and casting cadence.  The original post said it was recommended that the temperature range was from 700 to 800 degrees. 

I have a Lee 4-20 that has trouble with a nice consistant flow unless the pot melt is 775 for WW types of alloys.  If I add ingots in too large a quantity, I have to wait for the melt to fully liquify and return to that temp.  This is probably exacerbated by the fact that I cast in an unheated shed during the winter months. 

In my situation I have an electric heater, an exhaust fan, and a casting furnace.  Pick two, you can not run all three at the same time.  They are pistol bullets, WW alloy, a perfectly shinny bullet is a random accident.  Improving the power to the shed is not an option.  Sometimes you just have to work with what you have, not seek the ideal conditions.  Duane

Forgot to mention, my thermometer is not calibrated.  I just use it the way it came.  I realize that those numbers might not be exactly accurate, but given that I cast for 20-30 years without a thermometer, I guess it does not make a heck of a lot of difference and is used just for a reference more than an OC instrument. 

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onondaga posted this 13 May 2012

Duane, what I am saying is that 800 Degrees is just wrong. Some people say they cast at 800. If you check their work and check their alloy with a calibrated thermometer you will see that 800 is just wrong and if they are casting at a true 800 degrees they have to be waiting a long time between mold fills or cooling their molds.

Pressure casting can offer a bit of compromise at 800 as it minimizes air contact with the 800 degree alloy but there will be evidence of oxidized tin on the surface of the bullets and fill out will be observed to be less than ideal compared to casting at temperatures that don't instantly oxidize tin upon contact with air.

 Their bullets made from a alloy with tin at 800 will exhibit the oxidation and loss of tin from their alloy. You cannot keep Tin from oxidation at 800 unless you work in a vacuum or  an inert gas atmosphere. Anybody can deny that and say I am wrong but he will be incorrect and in complete disagreement with metallurgical science and simple observation would reveal the truth of his methods. You can't break the science. You can only appear to make it look wrong with an intentional lie or ignorance of poorly calibrated equipment..

Gary

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