Shooting .22's

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  • Last Post 27 November 2007
CB posted this 02 February 2007

Does anybody know why the 22 Hornet seems to seldom be a tack driver? Seems strange. I have always been skeptical that case shape affected accuracy but maybe the Hornet is the proof. (John)

If something smaller than the .222 would work better there's not much out there to work with. Your opinion?? (Pete)  

I don't think the 22 Hornet, as a cartridge design has much if any inherit accuracy. It's accuracy is good, but has never been a one-hole punching cartridge for BR shooting. If anything is a standard, the BR cartridges of the jacketed matches and Tubb's own cartridge designs are all similar; a fairly proportional wide base (the .222 cartridge percentage-wise is not used for BR cartridges) and a 30 degree shoulder with a proportional neck.

 

I'd consider a shortened 22 PPC or a 221 Fireball as a good choice for custom BR rifles. In a PROduction rifle, there is not much of a choice, though the 222 would be much better than the 223. The problem with the 223 cartridge, isn't necessarily the cartridge, but the chambers that the factories cut. It seems even in the bolt-action rifles, the manufactures still use a chamber that will accept the sloppier .556 NATO ammo standards, over the tighter SAAMI specs. for good accuracy. Like Pete says, there isn't much out there to pick from in a PROduction class rifle in the 222.

Dan Willems

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Ed Harris posted this 02 February 2007

If you look at the SAAMI chamber for the .22 Hornet, the forcing cone entrance ahead of the case mouth is large, and the shape of the forcing cone gives little or no guidance to the bullet, so that with typical 40-gr. bullets the projectile base may actually clear the case mouth before it is engraved.

In order to build a Hornet that will “shoot” use a regular .224” groove diameter, but 14” twist barrel, and have the reamer ground to min SAAMI body dimensions, but with the front end like the front end of the Winchester 52D .22 LR match chamber, setting the depth so that your chosen bullet is lightly pressed against the rifling in chambering, but will extract without debulleting. This is the way European Hornets such as the Brno and CZ are done.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Ed Harris posted this 02 February 2007

I would also vote for the .222 Remington over the .223 any time. If looking for a light production rifle, there are used TWO Sako .222 Remington Vixen sporters on the used rack at Gilberts Small Arms, 8194M Terminal Road, Lorton, VA 22079, Telephone (703)550-8005. One has the plain European style stock with iron sights for $600, another has the American style stock with plain barrel for $675. Both are about 90% guns.

They also have a couple Savage Model 24-V(?) combination guns, one is a .222 over 12-ga.,didn't note the price on that one, was I was looking at the other, a .222 over 20-ga.  for only $275.  A good deal for a hunter.  Decided I had enough hunting guns, but I WAS tempted.  I have no interest in the sales, just passing on the info.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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CB posted this 02 February 2007

Ed,

Ya, my buddy and I have that consideration, in our many, many discussions about the Hornet. We often day-dream about a match-grade chambered rifle in the 22 Hornet, but then past experiences deludes those thoughts. The cartridge is still weak, thin walled, dealing with a rimmed cartridge isn't necessary. Also, finding a good heavy strong action to use for BR purposes isn't really practical.

With that much still going against the 22 Hornet for BR purposes, I'd still stay with what is working and performing that the jacketed BR's are using, and shorten up for case capacity purposes. Another friend of mine has a tight-neck 221 Fireball that performs well, almost to BR standards. Having shot and messed with his rifle, gives me daydreams about that little cartridge for shooting 22 BR cast bullets.

Dan Wiilems

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Daryl S posted this 03 February 2007

Ed - I don't know what CZ did with their hornets, or whose reamers they used, but my sporter CZ 527 barrel turned into a 1's and 2's for 3 shots and in the 3's for 5 shot groups. It wasn't until after I'd put 5,000 rounds through it that I discovered Barnes 40gr. Varminators to go wth the LIl'Gun I was using.

: The CZ twist rate is 16” with a .223” bore.  Other guys on the small bore forum I frequent (4 years now) have the same action in other styles and they are typical 1/2” or better rifles - if loaded correctly.

: I found the cases must be crimped using a Lee crimp die.  Even 50gr. Hornady SP's will group into and under 1/2” if loaded correctly.

 My best Hornet gopher was at 454yards. It took 3 shots to get the wind and elevation right. For long range shooting, I used 40gr. Nosler BT's.

: yes - .222's and .223's have a greater accuracy potential, but don't sell a CZ .22 Hornet short. My brass, all RP, went 14 rounds each and is now formed to .17AH - never been annealed & some has fired twice now as a .17.

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Dale53 posted this 08 February 2007

I have a Ruger #3 that has been rechambered to .221 Fireball that shoots both jacketed and cast bullets well. I also have a TC .221 Fireball (10” handgun) that will shoot the Lyman 225415 in 1/2” at fifty yards (five shot groups).

It has been a good cartridge for me.

Dale53

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linoww posted this 24 September 2007

i have had my best luck with the 22-250 with cast bullets in factory guns.It seems strange it would work so well in a big case,but it does.I have also had good luck with Hornet velocity jacketed loads with h4227 and  cast loads seem to do the best with 4759 or 5744.I tried 2400,but it never did it for me.In a Stevens 200 sporter I expect about 1/4 of the groups to be MOA(at 100yds) or a bit better.If the groups get as big as 1.-5/8 ” I get a little upset. My last 20 groups have averaged 1-3/8",and that includes some pretty windy days.At 200 yds in “decent” conditions it seldom goes over 3-1/2” and once in awhile will do as small as 1-3/4".I like this gun for general plinking at our range.I do “cheat” and use Eagan nose pour molds.If i use other bulets such as 225415 or 225462  I taper the bullets to fit the throat.I wish i could get the sleek RCBS 55sp to shoot,bit I just cant.

I have noticed cleaning the bore a bit more often with the 22's to keep up accuracy,about every 50 shots seems OK.Some of my '06 and 30-30's I dont clean for 300 or more shots and have yet to see a decline of accuracy.I run my 22's about 2200fps and my 30's about 1600 and that may be the issue? It takes about 4 shots in the 22's to settle down once cleaned and dry patched with Hoppies or Ed's Red.

I have not found the need to weigh bullets .My 22's seem to be very uniform and I dont see a big variation in weight samples so I dont bother anymore.I orient the components and visually inspect bullets pretty carefully.

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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fa38 posted this 25 September 2007

Linoww:

What twist rate would you need to stabilize the RCBS 55 SP bullet at Hornet velocities?  10 inch?

fa38

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linoww posted this 25 September 2007

I'll measure a bullet and check the lenght of it.I stabalize a .728 length bullet just fine in my 12” twist 22-250's at 1900FPS.I know the 55sp is quite a bit shorter than this.My guess(and it is just a guess I havent done it) is that there would be no problem stabalizing a bullet as long as the 55sp bullet with a 10” twistHornet  at 1600fps.

 

Geo.

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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Daryl S posted this 04 October 2007

fa38 wrote: Linoww:

What twist rate would you need to stabilize the RCBS 55 SP bullet at Hornet velocities?  10 inch?

fa38

My late cousin used to shoot the RCBS 55gr. silhouette from both his .222's with 14” twist and the .223's with 12” twists.  I recall he liked both cartridges and shot many groups in the 1” range with either. Ed held speeds to sub 2,000fps, I believe, totally capable with the Hornet's case.

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KenK posted this 25 November 2007

I have a Ruger No. 1 in .218 Bee that I have shot some cast bullets out of.  It does fairly well with the Lyman 225438, I don't use gas checks.

I would love to have a 45 grain plain base mould and have considered getting NEI to make me one.

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Daryl S posted this 25 November 2007

I agree that NEI would be one route, Ken. but would try Veral first,I think.  That way you should get proper sizing, something that could be hit and miss with NEI.

: My .218Bee #1 has had over 6,500 rounds through it most with Lil'Gun and 40gr. Vmaxs. Due to the 14” twist they also shoot well with up to 55gr. bullets. I used it for several seasons as my 'second' gun when gopher shooting. It was quite capable to 400 meters with 40gr.'ers at 3,700fps.

; The 55gr. RCBS silhouette cast bullet might be very good, allowing long seating with a long bore riding section.

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linoww posted this 26 November 2007

Daryl S wrote: I agree that NEI would be one route, Ken. but would try Veral first,I think.  That way you should get proper sizing, something that could be hit and miss with NEI.

Veral made me a nice 22SP mold.I had it made with about 1 deg taper per side.it came out with wonderful dimensions and a GC shank that held the check perfectly.It will be the best mold money spent buying an LBT.My four tapered 22 bullet designs are the most accurate i have fired in 22 caliber.I am sold on the taper design in general,but ecpecially in 22 caliber.I cant say how it would fit the 223's throated for the heavy military bullets though.

George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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KenK posted this 26 November 2007

Daryl S wrote:  Due to the 14” twist they also shoot well with up to 55gr. bullets. I have actually gotten fairly good accuracy all the way up to 63 grain jacketed bullets in mine.

All LBT lists in the catalog is a spitzer and I would prefer a flat point. The NEI #3, 54 grain gas check bullet, without the gas check shank, is what I was thinking of.

 

linnoww, are you breech seating the tapered .22 caliber bullets?

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Daryl S posted this 27 November 2007

Ken - I've never tried anything heavier than 55gr. Vmaxs. They're pretty long, though, and at 3,150fps, are very accurate.

: I thought Veral would make any design you wanted, flat from pointy swould be an easy change.

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linoww posted this 27 November 2007

KenK wrote: Daryl S wrote:   

linnoww, are you breech seating the tapered .22 caliber bullets?

No,but the Eagan MX3 22-EX 63g and MX322 55g are tapered enough to only be held by the GC shank and rear band. They could be breech seated be in a softer alloy I would think.

 

George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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linoww posted this 27 November 2007

Daryl S wrote: : I thought Veral would make any design you wanted, flat from pointy swould be an easy change.

When i ordered my custom 22 from Veral he mentioned the nose section jig being “fixed” so I wasn't able to alter it.The body was easily altered though.

 

George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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