Picking a universal powder?

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  • Last Post 23 September 2010
Canuck Bob posted this 16 July 2010

I will be loading 2 centrefires, 32-20 and 444 Marlin, both in strong lever actions.

I am hoping to load a LBT 300 grain at 1600 fps in the 444.  I'll buy a LBT mold for the 32-20 in the 1600-1800 fps range but want to stock one powder for both. 

My Lyman manual and other sources from here, thanks guys, indicate this is doable.

For these rifles my plan is a single load recipe and no ongoing tinkering once suitable loads are found.  I think I want powders that will give clean performance in charges that are not too small, ie. Unique.  I am looking for advice on a powder that will give me a good chance of success for this mission with minimal experimentation.  I reloaded years ago and felt like a gunpowder collector sometimes.

 

 

 

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Canuck Bob posted this 18 July 2010

One powder that may meet my needs is H4198.  It is an excellent 444 powder and looks like it would make a good 32-20 powder for 100% load density medium pressure loads.

The ability to handle temperature variations is a good thing for a Canadian.  The Hodgdon site indicates it now meters well and has shortened kernels.

Anyone have reloading experience with the 32-20 and H4198?

 

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RicinYakima posted this 18 July 2010

While I haven't tried the new short cut variation, the older long stick didn't work all that well. I could not get enough into the case with a 115 grain bullet to make 1250 f/s, had incomplete burning (as in sticks of unburned powder falling into the action on ejection) and ignition problems even with small rifle primers. FWIW, Ric

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JSH posted this 18 July 2010

That is a tough one. Mooses to mouses......... FYI I had the same reults as Ric had in the 32-20. I would be more inclined to Unique but it won't be a top end load in the 444. 2400 may be another option?

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Canuck Bob posted this 18 July 2010

I wondered if the pressure just wouldn't be there for clean consistent burning.

This is going to be filed under “another hair brain scheme” category.  I just wish my rifle would show up so I can start shooting and stop speculating.

I still want a load density up around 80% plus and aiming for 1400-1600 max.  However there sure are a bunch of people with more experience than me who don't mind small charges of fast powder.

Thanks guys.

 

 

 

 

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4060may posted this 18 July 2010

SR4759 should work for both. I use SR4759 in my 40-60, 45-70, 38-50, 38-55, and have used it in my 32-20 according to the Lyman cast bullet book, circa 1958 SR4759 with 3118 bullet up to 1575fps in the 32-20 I have gotten plan base velocities with little problem in my 40-60, close to the same case capacity, except I'm using 400gr bullets..

HTH

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RicinYakima posted this 18 July 2010

Bob,

9.0 grains of 2400 is more than 80% case capacity, and 10.0 grains of SR4759 is 100% plus. Even 6.0 grains of Unique is more than 1/2. Starline cases are a little less than 14.0 grains of water, densier than either powder.

Ric

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Canuck Bob posted this 19 July 2010

Well I thought the cases were bigger.  SR4759 does have potential.  For some reason I thought the case was filled  at around 15gr.

 

 

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tturner53 posted this 19 July 2010

I vote for Unique. A compromise, yes, but it works at least decent in everything, almost everything.

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RicinYakima posted this 19 July 2010

Bob,

It depends upon what case you are using and what bullet. Starline have less volumne due to different case head design. With 95 grain jacketed bullets, you could squeeze about 15 grains of water in, but I got drips out of the case neck.

Ric

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Ed Harris posted this 20 July 2010

One of the best powders I have found for good velocity at reasonable pressures in straight wall rifle cases is RL-7. It is one of the very best powders for the .444 Marlin and in smaller cases such as the .32 H&R Magnum, .327 Federal or .32-20 you cannot get enough RL-7 into the case to get into any trouble.

In the .32-20 a nominal caseful with slight compression behind a 115-120 grain bullet such as Saeco #322 or NEI #82 plainbase gives ballistics similar to the original blackpowder load.

This load will not perform well in revolvers, as it will leave alot of unburned powder, but works nicely in the Winchester 92, smokeless powder single-shots and boltguns such as the Savage Models 219 or 23.

A friend in West Virginia loads the Hornady .312", 100-grain XTP for the .32 H&R Magnum with a caseful, slightly compressed of RL-7 in Remington brass with Remington 6-1/2 primers for his original 1873 Winchester and a custom Colt Official Police fitted with .32-20 Army Special cylinder and 8-inch barrel turned from a pulled-off US .30 M1 carbine barrel and has killed several deer with both over the years.  No signs of high pressure with this load.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Canuck Bob posted this 20 July 2010

Thanks Ed,

Alliant's site shows a 16 gr load pushing a 100 gr XTP at 1634 fps.  Other research suggests that it would be hard to get that much Re 7 in a 32-20 case?

It really looks like a fine 444 powder as well.

 

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Canuck Bob posted this 24 July 2010

Re7 $38/lb. !!!!!!!!!

Now I understand the small charges better.  We are limited in Canada to suppliers of powder.  When I went to two online sources I almost fell off my laz-boy (if thats possible).  For a full case of RE7 in a 444 the powder is .28 alone, plus a nickel for a gas check, plus a primer, .40 for a condom bullet.  Then when I amoritize reloading and casting gear over a few thousand rounds the Scotsman in me cringes.

Man, my 32-20 is looking more attractive now.  I will stop neglecting my 22LRs.

 

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runfiverun posted this 24 July 2010

i'm gonna weigh in on this one look at something slower than 4227 and faster than 4895.

silly as it sounds. aa-2230 works well in my 25-20, and also in the 0-6,and the 30-30,and the 8 mauser. jaxketed and cast. oh yeah also in the 357 max, the 223, 375 winchester, 375/445 supermags, etc.

in the 32-20 i use 700-x just cause i got some but i'm also using the brass in my 30 carbine revolver.

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kidwalli posted this 22 September 2010

IMR SR 4759. Meters perfectly through a Lee Perfect powder measure. Not so good in any of the other measures I have tried. The loads listed in my old Lyman third edition manual are too hot I think. I generally go by what Joe Brennan and others have recommended. You might want to check out the Cast Boolit boys' web site. There are lots of ideas about what you are trying to accomplish. Be safe. Have fun.

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Ed Harris posted this 23 September 2010

2400 will work great in .32-20 and also works in the .444. While I understand that you would rather fill the case, the amount of airspace experienced with #2400 in the .444 using full loads will not adversely affect ballistic uniformity.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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bsdger45 posted this 23 September 2010

While I have used 2400 powder on and off in the 32-20 for 50 years, I have never been happy with extreme velocity spreads of 185 fps in a 5 shot group. While I am aware of the influence of bullet pull and crimp, this is a limiting factor with the thin walled cartridge. Although an option, I haven't tried magnum primers in this loading. The performance of 2400 that I have represented is with full power loads of 1900 fps. With reduced loads of 2400, the ES is greater. It appears that 2400 works best with higher pressure rounds. On the other hand, the way that 2400 acts under low pressure has made it a favorite in many of the old black powder cartridges. The results have been the same with both the old and new versions of 2400. 4227 exhibits slightly lower extreme spreads. Being an old pfhardt, my options include Alcan Al-5 and Al-8, both of which behave well and group well, equally so for AA-9s in full power loadings. These are just my findings, and I will opt out of the ever expanding variety of available powder choices. John

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JeffinNZ posted this 23 September 2010

I was thinking H4227 or AR2205 as we know it down here but I think the boys might be right with Re7 or 4198.

Cheers from New Zealand

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