Bore fouling --Cleaning?

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  • Last Post 06 June 2010
Vassal posted this 04 June 2010

It has been suggested to me several times to clean my cast guns only when neccesary; i.e. leading or severe carbon ring. I have just returned from the range where I shot some not-so-good groups, with a load that performed fantastic just the other day. (13gr of Tboss in Big Russian with 175gr PB for 1380+/-fps) Now, I did change primers also, so it may be that, but it has me thinking, maybe it is the bore fouling.

I wonder if any of you have cast guns that shoot better if cleaned regularly.

Anyone have a gun that needs a patch or two after twenty rounds? any clean between firing rounds at a CBA match?

It seems like I remember “Castmaster G" ;) saying that he setlled a cast gun down with a patch after a number of rounds.

What are your cleaning regimins for competition/target cast bullet rifle bores?

Thanks

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CB posted this 04 June 2010

Vassal, everyone is different on opinions about cleaning. Every load, every barrel is different, so you will need to judge for yourself. Find a load that shoots well. Clean the bore good and shoot 5 shots and record the group size. Then shoot five more shots on another bull and record that group. Do this for 20 rounds and watch for a progression of decrease in accuracy. If poor accuracy groups are the result from the first group, then you need to clean after every record score or group.

I personally clean after every target. My buddy next to me never cleans during the whole match. We are shooting production guns. Factory barrels usually have fouling problems where custom barrels will superior bores seem to hardly need near the same amount of cleaning as production factory barrels...............Dan

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R. Dupraz posted this 04 June 2010

Dan's got it nailed. My Israeli K-98 7.62 likes one wet and two dry patches, followed by a fouler, after every record ten rounds. Otherwise, even with a bright sharp bore,  the old soldier gets a little cranky.

RD

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RicinYakima posted this 04 June 2010

Vassel,

I only have really worked with '03 and 03A3 Springfield's, but have done this study before. Since I mostly shoot A2400, SR4789 and a little AA5744, my experience will vary from others.

If I am shooting A2400, I need to push a dry patch through the barrel at the end of the day, or after a couple of hours of not shooting. If I don't a ring of dried lube, primer and powder fouling will build up right in front of the chamber. Then it takes a pass with a nylon brush and a couple of dry patches and a fouler to get it shooting again. This is with Grey #24 lube. With NRA lube, it needs a patch of Ed's Red added to the mix.

With AA5744 or SR4759, it will need a wet patch and a couple of dry ones every 50 rounds.

Ric

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DAMRON G posted this 04 June 2010

i shoot 11.0 of TB in my Russian with plainbase and find i need to dry brush it about every 15 or i get the buildup Ric is talking about.I only do 4 strokes and that seems to do it.I think your velocity of 1380 may be a bit fast for plainbase.it works sometimes,but the closer i get to 1400 the more odd things happen.

 

George

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Vassal posted this 04 June 2010

Thanks for the replys. they have given me just what I wanted to know.

As for velocity, I think you are right. I am just on the edge - but they shoot better:thinking:.  In fact I tried to leave the front groove empty and started to see a bit of leading. I think this load will work but it is RIGHT at the edge. :kilroy:

As far as the buildup, or ring -  Is this something that is visible to the eye in the barrel? If so how difficult is it to see?

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RicinYakima posted this 04 June 2010

The ring is hard to see, but you can fell the tight spot with a patch very easily. Once you get a feel for how many rounds it takes with that load, you just do it by habit. Ric

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DAMRON G posted this 04 June 2010

"As far as the buildup, or ring - Is this something that is visible to the eye in the barrel? If so how difficult is it to see?

Like Ric says you feel it at first with a patch.if gone too long it is pretty visible and hard.It is easier to get out in warm bore rather than letting it cool down and harden.

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DAMRON G posted this 05 June 2010

two groups @ 200 with 190g spitzer  plain base bullet in 7.62 Russian 91-30 6x scope.Cleaned between groups with two swipes of brass brush to scrub out carbon.one fouler before each 10 shot group.

getting there,but not quite competitive.

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Vassal posted this 05 June 2010

God willing I will load and shoot two groups at 200 with LBT PB and see how I am doing. I am about ready to start shooting real groups, (meaning of 10 like competition.) I am satisfied with my loads enough to start.

Nice targets. I just spent about 1.5 hr cutting out a template (for spray paint) which has a hole for the MR31 center and actual scoring rings for the MR53. Someone at the club was using a MR63 target, so I have one of those to reference now also.

In order to keep within the spirit of this thread, I will shoot one group with my bore fouled, as is (roughly 50 various cast rounds GC and PB over two previous sessions)

Then I will clean at the range, pop a fouler and see if I get improvement. Even though I have scoped my M39, I believe I will use the 91-30. I am actually a little afraid I have made a mistake by mounting a scope. I thought I would be excited, but actually I just want to shoot my iron sited gun. Who would have thought that! I suppose I will get in to it in the future. Ahh the pains of settling into a new hobby!:cba:

I better get going if I wan tot get this done today. It takes me forever to finger lube and clean and then load by weighing each charge.

I should really figure out how to use a rifle chamber (as opposed to the pistol that came with it) on my Redding 3 powder measure. That would realy save some time. It works great for 9gr of SR4756 but NOT for 13 of TBoss.

Thanks for all the help by the way, especially Castmaster G, I have used much of your advice - including the TBoss load :D.

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DAMRON G posted this 05 June 2010

” just spent about 1.5 hr cutting out a template (for spray paint) which has a hole for the MR31 center"

that's what my aiming point above is.

8-9 of Unique has also shot equally well with the same bullet lately.

TrailBoss and a homemade dipper works fine and has been as accurate as weiging for me.Dip in powder,swipe of the excess flush wih the top and thats it.Pretty quick.

George

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72coupe posted this 06 June 2010

Several of us are starting to shoot cast bullets in the local 100 yard High Power Matches. It seems to be the concensus that pulling a bore snake through a couple times after 40 rounds is adequate.

I think it depends a lot on the type of lube you use and your velocity.

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Vassal posted this 06 June 2010

I have been considering trying CMP Vintage with cast, as I have just joined a club.

I did not get to do my testing, though I did figure out that at least part of my problem was switching guns - The 13 of Tboss is ok in the m39 but NOT in the 9130. It leads a little. I do know that 12.5 does not lead in that gun though, so I will have to test next time.

I am trying pretty hard to get ready before the Regionals in KC. I know the guys out west are doing the same for Military Nationals next week.:cba:

I hope to make it to KC and might even try to stay for the regular Nationals, but it will be tough to cover costs as I am already falling behind on components. It tough shooting so much B). Maybe I could sleep in my car!  :coonskin:

I think a dipper probably would work for Tboss. I will try that out.

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