Reloading the Blackhawk .327 Mag for Fun and Field

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  • Last Post 14 June 2010
rhouser posted this 21 April 2010

I am starting this thread to chronical my entry into the world of .32 caliber handgun.  I will be working up loads to shoot through a 5 1/2” barrel ruger blackhawk.  I will be loading .32 S&W, .32 S&W Long, and 327 Federal Magnum cases.  I will look at gallery, bunny, target, and hunting loads that work in my particular gun.

I think I have read all the posts that I can find.  My position is that the .32 S&W and .32 S&W Long have been well explored and for me, it will only be finding what does what in my gun.  I see the .327 as a high pressure application of the .32 HR MAG.  I don't see much/any need to get the .32 HRM brass as it is so close to the .327 brass.

Last weekend, I sat at a bench and shot 100 American Eagle .327s off a rolled mat rest.  My first observation is that these are not hand numbering, wrist swelling, fire breathers when fired from the 3 lb ruger platform. 

I fired 50 S&W standard cartridges and these were fun.  Almost like cbs.  I have 250 S&W casings, so, I think these will be the basis for my gallery rounds.

I fired 50 S&W longs and these showed the best grouping potential out of the cartridges shot.  They were very mild, but, significantly louder than the S&W out of my Ruger.  I have 250 S&W long cases and will use these for bunny and target loading.

I have 200 .327 Mag cases and these will be for Field Loads. 

Bullets:  I have Meistner 94 gr cast at .312.  I have Magtech LRN 85 gr at .313.  On the way in I have 115 gr PB flat tips. I have 115 gr Speer GDHP. 

My plan is now to work on starting points and explore the .327 Fed as the logical extension of the .32s that came before it.   The 3 pound ruger should handle about anything that I can fit in the casing....  more to come.

rc

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william iorg posted this 22 April 2010

Well, I hope to participate. As I said in the other thread I got my NEI mold with the 122- and 125-grain cuts. I have the Lyman 311008 mold and several other .32 caliber molds in the 100-grain weight range.

I have not been able to buy the new heavier weight jacketed bullets but they will be available eventually. We will probably want to talk about jacketed bullets on the Beartooth forum.

I see the 115-grain and heavier cast bullets as ideal for the heavy frame 327's. While I may be able to push them faster I am looking for an target velocity of 1,400 to 1,450 fps for the heavy bullets in the large frame revolvers.

I counted last night and I believe I have 14 powders appropriate to the 327 cartridge so it will be fun to explore. I normally use fast powders for my reduced loads but I have several pounds of IMR Trail Boss and I hope to try it in the 327 with various bullet weights.

I will use the 100-grain and lighter bullets primarily in the Charter Arms Kit Gun.

It will be a lot of fun to compare our results from the same type firearm with the same length barrel.

Slim

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william iorg posted this 25 April 2010

The 122-grain #82 NEI bullet is quite versatile. Using my rather soft mix the bullet drops from my mold at 130-grains and .3145” diameter. The #82 bullet is .709” long.

When I drop this bullet as-cast into my Ruger Blackhawk cylinder it stops .127” from the front face of the cylinder. With the 1.7450” cylinder length this leaves a total of 1.618” of chamber remaining.

You can adjust your COAL back and forth but at the moment my revolver seems to like a 1.549” COAL. This has the bullet seated .360” which gives us 9.9 grains of water and this leaves room for 8.3 grains of Alliant 2400 or 9.6 grains of Hodgdon 110 or 9.2 grains of Hodgdon Lil' Gun ”€œ all uncompressed.

 

The NEI #76 125-grain bullet drops from my mold at 139-grains and .312” diameter. The #76 bullet is .783” long.

When I drop this bullet as cast into my Blackhawk cylinder it pokes its nose out of the cylinder with the bullets front drive band up close to the front face of the cylinder.

I am seating this bullet to use the bottom crimp groove. This has the bullet seated .363” deep for a COAL of 1.520”.

This leaves me room for about the same amount of the powders listed above.

I am assuming our cylinders are about the same length and reamed with the same tooling. The last four digits of my s/n are1013.

 

I am setting up for my first real chronograph session with the Blackhawk this afternoon.

 

I am attaching a drawing from Greg Mushial's RCBS Load program just to give some perspective to the cartridge ”€œ bullet seat relationship.

Slim

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william iorg posted this 25 April 2010

I forgot to add the

 

Slim

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william iorg posted this 01 May 2010

That work thang is bothering me but I got to shoot a little.

I certainly hope the empty brass arrives at Midsouth or Midway sometime soon. I hesitate to estimate the cost of the empties I have now!

I am trying to establish some starting loads and I am happy to report I am “working up” rather than “working down.” I am varying the COAL a bit and this is causing the point of impact to move up and down but the gun is grouping reasonably well for me at 25-yards I have shot several 5 shot groups in the 2 ½” range but have shot a number of groups at 3 ½” with 1 or 2 shots getting away from me. Looks like I need lots of practice.

Here are some of the more promising starting loads which are in the 32 H&R Magnum class. All of these are loaded in Federal 327 brass using Federal small pistol Magnum primers ”€œ it's what I was able to buy on my last trip.

 

Alliant 2400 is proving to be just a bit on the fast side for my heavy bullets.

125-grain NEI bullet at 1.650” COAL ahead of 9.2 grains of Alliant 2400 gave me 1,158 fps.

 

The 122-grain NEI bullet ahead of 9.2 grains of Alliant 2400 at a COAL of 1.565” gave me 1,185 fps.

 

The 125-grain NEI bullet ahead of 10.2 grains of Hodgdon Lil' Gun at a COAL  of 1.615” gave me 1,122 fps.

 

The 125-grain NEI bullet ahead of 10.2 grains of Hodgdon 110 at a COAL of 1.545” gave me 1,218 fps.

 

I still have not posted jacketed bullet loads on the Beartooth Shooters forum as I am not certain how to separate the load information between the heavy frame guns and the lighter guns.

 

I forgot to aadd that the 115-grain Federal Gold Dot load is getting 1,558 fps and the empties fall out of the cylinder at the touch of the extractor rod.

Slim

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hunterspistol posted this 01 May 2010

:coffee   As a 32 H&R magnum shooter, and 32-20 experimenter, I'm interested in what this thread offers.  Gentlemen, keep up the good work! 

   The 3 pound ruger should handle about anything that I can fit in the casing....  more to come.      I hope so, may have to purchase one myself.

     Ron

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rhouser posted this 12 May 2010

I have received the Weaver Scope mount for my .327 mag black hawk and it is a perfect fit. Removing the existing site was straight forward and the mount fits as designed. I put a 2-6 Bushnel elite 3200 on with some older Weaver Steel rings. I will use the scope through testing because I want to know if the gun will shoot. I took a box of Federal reduced recoil 90 grain PD loads (25) and a box of mag tech .32 s&w (not longs) and set up on a bench at the indoor range.

Used a MTM pistol rest (cheap), but, I wanted to see if the gun will shoot with factory ammo.

The Reduced recoil 90's will shoot a 2 inch group easily with 6 of the 8 forming a horizontal line and 2 fliers. If not for the fliers, the factory SD load had 6 rounds touching left to right but all perfectly in the plane. Less than a 1/2 vertical.

Now the suprise. The Mag Tech S&W standards will shoot a 1 1/2 inch vertical 8 shot group with less than 3/4 inch horizontal group,

I find the full house .327 in the 5” barrel to be much easier on the ears than the .30 carbine ever was (with factory loads). I don't know if this is just me, but, this just isn't an earsplitter.

Still building inventory of cases, but, I have enough to start loading now.

thanks rc

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william iorg posted this 13 May 2010

That is great shooting for a nearly new firearm.

What do you think this outfit weighs now?

Here is a picture of four of our varmint handguns: 30 Carbine, 32-20, and the two 327's. If you are able lets see a picture of the scope attachment on that Blackhawk.

Slim

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rhouser posted this 14 May 2010

I tried the bathroom scale and it's really not giving me much. A hair under 4 pounds. This is really NOT the final gun cofig, but, it IS good for range validation and grouping.

Great Looking group of pistols you have. I really wish the ruger could have been done with a 7 or 7.5 inch barrel. I think the slower powders will prove we could use the extra couple of inches.

I hope to hit the outdoor range this weekend to do some 50 and 50+ meter shooting. thanks rc

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william iorg posted this 15 May 2010

The scope and mount did not add as much weight as I thought it would. At that weight it should make for a good varminters fired from crossed sticks or from a monopod. At certain times of the year in the pecan groves the raccoons will come in as “families” when there is still good light. The scoped handgun would be good for this type of hunting where you must shoot downward and avoid the trees and the sprinklers.

Slim

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rhouser posted this 21 May 2010

I went to the outdoor range last Sunday with 50 rounds of federal eagle, the scope, and a front rest. I chronographed the american eagle 100 gr flat points at 1430 fps from my blackhawk at 10 feet from the muzzle,

I set up a target at 60 yards and from a bench using a cauldwell front rest, I was able to call “head shots” on a set of two inch bulls at 60 yards at will. This is still factory ammo.

My ballistics program says I still have 305 ft lbs of energy at 60 yards and 247 ft lbs at 100.

A white tail at 125 yards caused a cease fire. This started the question of a .327 vs a whitetail at 60. The two inch bull certainly bodes that a headshot would be possible.

Need to start working up handloads. thanks rc

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rhouser posted this 24 May 2010

Out of all the powders, I ended up deciding to try Ramshot True Blue. I kept running into load data that has true blue producing high velocity and low ES.

Loaded CCI Small Pistol Magnum, Meister 95 gr flattips at .312, federal brass and the following: 7.2 gr True Blue (vertical stringing)- no pressure 7.4 gr True Blue - no pressure signs 7.6 gr True Blue - no pressure signs

All shooting was at 80 yards using front rest and rear bag- 6 power scope. I didn't bring my chrono cause of the rain. All primers rounded, no hard extraction. At the 7.4 grain level, the Range officer (and long time co-shooter) came over to ask what I was running because concussion was notable (out door range). He said it was “cracking like a rifle". I must assume I was I was reaching hypersonic velocities. No recoil issues.

Concern: I have no leading, but, I think I am going to go to a 113 gr hardcast GC bullet because I feel that I am not even near the max velocity. I want to get my chrono out before I continue up. I could be at 1500+ right now. I am seating the COL long so case capacity has been expanded. I may need to increase the crimp a little to contain things while the fire is building.  Sure is nice to have that 45000 PSI top limit out on this cartridge.

I think a hard cast with a decent meplate will be my final 100 yard small game configuation. The ballistic coefficient may not support any terminal performance at the 100+ yard distances with the SD type hollow point jacketed bullets, but with sufficient penetration I believe the Hard Cast GC will give me the penetration I want.  Shot placement becomes everything.

I will do some 100 yard penetration testing (probably on stacked 2X4's.  I just want to see what the penetration is at that range.  (Note: they won't let me drag milk jugs onto my range. 

Thanks to all rc

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william iorg posted this 24 May 2010

RH

You shoot that handgun very well. I have never seen a jug of Ramshot for sale. These days I have to order my powder as the local shops have very little to offer. I spent last week in El Paso and they have less selection than we do.

I don't know if you have seen this group buy on the cast bullets (boolits) forum:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=79848

This is a 115-grain Keith type SWC which is a nice bullet but unfortunately not optimized for the longer COALs which are possible with the Blackhawk and GP100 revolvers, if you are looking for a Keith type SWC in this weight range it will be a good start.

A better choice is probably a 115-grain LBT FN which can be ordered with a .400” nose. This will allow the full use of the long cylinder. If you do not have Veral's book this is a good opportunity to buy it too. If you buy the book I have made up a pretty good index for it and I'll send it to you.

If you are a member of Yahoo groups go to the CB-Book group and look for the article on gas checks. I believe this is by Mr. Brennan and may be on the Frixel pages too. There is a lot to think about when the pressures get high in a revolver and Veral Smith has some of the best information available anywhere on the subject. Some very small changes with your components may have significant influence on leading, accuracy and our perception of what a maximum load is. In Verals book there is good discussion of bullet hardness, cylinder throat fit and lubricant. Go to the Yahoo group CB-L and look for the threads on shooting no-lubricant cast bullets. You can learn a great deal about cast bullet fit in revolvers by reading all posts by Norman Johnson (and I apologies if I have the last name wrong ”€œlong day).

I am working with Hodgdon Lil' Gun and H110 using Alox 50/50 from Javelina. If I run into trouble in the summer months I'll switch to LBT Blue or Blue Magnum but I am short of both types of lube. I am looking forward to your results using the 115 grain bullet.

My wife and are looking at Ed Harris small game match and looking forward to a summer of shooting bunny targets with the 32 H&R Magnum.

Slim

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william iorg posted this 24 May 2010

I intended to mention that a Lee Factory crimp die or a Redding Profile Crimp die are pretty helpful when seating bullets out past their optimum crimping region. For the 32's I am using a Redding die and I find it very satisfactory. The Lee die will give equal service but it is special order and the Redding die is a stock item.

When testing bullet expansion and penetration I use the water trough, a modification of the Facklers box. My trough has been hammered pretty hard by the hydraulic action ”€œ it is not wide enough. Most days I use light weight cardboard boxes set end to end with water filled trash bags in them. This makes for an easy clean up and pretty uniform testing medium. If you saw the thread on the Beartooth forum that's what I shooting the Gold Dot bullets into.

Slim

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william iorg posted this 24 May 2010

RH

I don't know how deep you are seating your bullets but using the standard seating depth for the Lyman 115-grain 311008 bullet which is about .320” I estimate you have room for 10.09 grains of Tru Blue ”€œ un-compressed.

The Lyman 100-grain 313631 bullet seats deeper and when seated .365” deep this leaves room for 9.26 grains of Tru Blue un-compressed.

This is where the LBT bullet will give us an advantage as the LBT bullet gives us just a bit more powder capacity

Slim

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rhouser posted this 25 May 2010

I have 500 113 gr gcs sized to .313 on the way from Cast Performance . My cylinders will actually allow me to dowel force a .314 bullet through but it takes firm hand pressure to pass the .314.  I think the .313 will be good. 

I spoke to a tech at Cast Perfomance as well and have decided that I will switch to Ramshot Enforcer. I have a Ramshot loading guide that calls for 12.8gr max at 1492 and only 34k pressure. This looks to be very close to my objective 1500 fps+ velocities.  The tech says the CP bullet will hold the lands up to 3K+ fps   This is a tough bullet.

A note on the Ramshot Powder: True Blue was/is my first experience with Ramshot powder. I was astounded by its fine grain. It is almost like dust but is a double base ball. If Enforcer is as dense then I will have no problems fitting the 12.8 gr into the case.

thanks rc

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rhouser posted this 01 June 2010

113gr Cast Perfomance gc with True Blue. Seated to 1.55 overall.

6.7 gr True Blue 50 yards group 5” scattered (not good) 6.9 gr True Blue 50 yards group 2.5 inch 1.8 with flyers. (better) 7.1 gr Primers flattened easy eject. .1 gr over listed max.

Want to try 7 gr True blue.

Have aquired Ramshot Enforcer.  I need to set up my chronograph to see what's really happening.

thanks rc 

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rhouser posted this 06 June 2010

I loaded 5 sets of 8 rounds with the enforcer. 12.0, 12.2, 12.4, 12.6, 12.8 (max book load).

Even at 12.8 I had no real pressure signs (book says it's only pushing 35K psi at the max load). I need to call ramshot and ask why they stopped there. Book claims 1492 fps at 12.8 for 115 gr lead. I need to bring out my chronograph and see whats what.

All shooting was off a front rest with a rear bag at 60 yards.

Grouping really started at 12.2 with 12.6 being the best, but I was getting a lot of flyers (3 out of 8). At 12.8 things really started to open up again. I then noticed my rear scope mount was loose (hand tightend it almost 1/4 turn).

CR*P#%

Plan: 1. Blue Loctite my scope mount screws. 2. Call Ramshot and discuss the real max. 3. Load from 12.4 to new Max. 4. Reshoot and chronograph the loads.

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rhouser posted this 14 June 2010

Well, I talked to Ramshot powders today and was told that I could fill the casing with ramshot enforcer and would not “over-pressure” the case. (Shades of LIL GUN and my Hornet).  The tech said Ramshot stopped at 12.8 gr with the 115 lead and 13.6 in the 100 xtp because thats all that would fit within the COL of the cartridge.

Since I am shooting the ruger blackhawk, the COL is whatever fits in the cylinder and still allows the cylinder still spin freely. The tech basically said load all you can fit (and burn) in the 5 1/2 barrel. 34.9k pressure with the 115 gr load is still way under capacity.

Ok Lets See... I took a fired casing and dropped 14 grains of enforcer into it then dropped a 113 gr GC Hard Cast LBT bullet onto the powder. I still have lead to crimp on plus some more room.

I then dropped 15 grains of enforcer and the 113 gr bullet has me with enough lead (above the lube ring) to crimp on with a little compression (finger only). Looks like 15 grains MAX capacity and still comes in under my cylinder dictated maximum COL of 1.677.

New plan: Take the chronograph and work with the additional 2.2 grains of powder I have to play with. The ED's and SD's should tell me when/if I have stopped burning the powder efficiently. I will use the Magnum Primers the whole way to get the max burn I can. I shot the 12.8 with no problems and no pressure signs. The Blackhawk even drilled to an 8 shooter has plenty of “meat” and the pressues still leave me alot of room.

To the bench, then to the range.

Thanks rc

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