Do any of you good folks have any experience with this combo in a Marlin 336 w/microgrooved barrel? I think it'll make a heck of a stomper for deer and black bear at woods ranges. Your thoughts?
.35 Remington and the Saeco 352 245 gr FP
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- Last Post 27 February 2011
Only molds I've used in the 35 REM have been the RCBS 35-200 , the RD 359-180GC and the RD 359-190GC . My old 336SC liked the RCBS mold and the RD 190 grainer just fine ! The Marlin 336D I shot cast only in really liked the RD 190 and shot the RD 180 well enough for killing deer .
FWIW , that RD 359-180GC worked really really great in a Marlin 336ER in 356 WIN I had setup just for cast bullets .
Thanks 6pt. Unfortunately, I did not get one of RD's .35 molds when they were available. I've corresponded with Al Nelson and he's told me they may run the RD359-190GC and the 309-165GC again in the spring. I will buy both if that happens. I also intend on getting the RCBS mold relatively soon. In the meantime, I have the Lyman 204 gr and the big Saeco. I use these in my .358's
Glen Fryxell loaded the Saeco in the .35 Rem with good results. I'm just looking to see what experiences others have had with this boolit. Glen was getting 1900+fps out of his .35 with the 245 gr. With its big flat nose, it should be a game killer.
My 1971 vintage, 336C does very well with both 160gr and 200gr cast in the micro groove barrel. Florida deer just aren't big enough to justify a heavier slug. The feral pigs however do command respect and I have used a Speer jacketed 250gr. when hunting for them. Just a footnote, a flattop Ruger always comes along on pig hunts. The Marlin action holds the high power and pressure just fine. Getting the heavier mould, specifically for shooting pigs, didn't seem prudent at the time. A lyman 160gr TC is my preferred deer bullet, loaded with 4227 running around 1800 fps it has proved itself. An inadvertent run in with a pack of sows also proved that the same great deer load was marginal on pigs. Maybe I should rethink a single purpose mould. I will be interested in learning how well the heavy slug works out. Thanks for starting this thread Tony.
Shoot often, Shoot well
Roy, I will post my results with the .35 Marlin here. Right now, it's kinda cold to be casting and shooting groups but as soon as I get a nice day...
I think, if I can get the 245 to shoot with accuracy and velocity, that it will be great on pigs and black bears. Deer are easy to kill but you can't kill 'em too dead.
I just noticed that this thread has not been updated. My apologies, I promised to keep all posted.
I didn't get the chance to do as much work with the 245 gr Saeco over the summer as I would have liked.
I did run IMR-3031 up to 33 gr without any pressure signs and experienced very satisfying accuracy. This should yield about 2,000 fps (I haven't had a chance to chronograph it.) Accuracy went under 2” at 50 yards but groups had 3 or 4 virtually touching. It simply needs a little tweaking. I hope to work on it more this spring.
The Saeco 245, when seated to the crimp groove, is perfect for overall length. Feeding is excellent. This bullet looks like it will be a heavyweight monster in the .35 Rem.
What the heck are doin? Your frigid air has dropped clear down here on me. Unlike most folks, the cold weather causes me to huddle around my casting pot for warmth. This morning it is 25 degrees outside and I am not my usual jovial self barely able to wait for my buddies to arrive for our Wednesday morning Lawnsteel shoot. Today I will be warming each cartridge individually prior to firing it. Glad to hear you have had success with the big ole bullet. Now it's time to set myself on fire to keep warm and go shooting.
Shoot often, Shoot well
Ha Roy. Nice. Blame me, like I control the weather. Geez. When we get a heat wave and all our igloos melt, do I blame you? :)
Seriously, have you ever had your trigger finger freeze to the trigger? I have.
I hate winter, in all its frozen glory. I'd rather be sitting at the range, working up loads instead of shivering.
On the bright side, we get to test powder for cold sensitivity.
Sorry about the igloo deal. This morning it was 45 degrees at sunrise and I am feeling much less crabby. There is another thread with some very good data concerning heavy bullets in a 35 Rem. While it is in a bolt action and probably unsuitable for a lever gun, the information is usable when reduced and applied with due care. Check it out.
Here is a couple of photos of my 1970 centennial Marlin, purchased in 1971 as a left over. Also in the pictures are most of the stuff I put through it. All my cast bullets are sized at .358 with a tested hardness of 12 brinell. My 336 gives pinpoint accuracy with no fouling at velocities between 1600 and 1800 fps. Since this is my sought after speed, I have little information on either side of the spectrum. Although a couple of my moulds are of gas check design, I don't use this option. With the exception of pig killing, I hunt with my cast slugs. In a pinch under duress, both the 207gr and the 160gr bullets have worked with varying degrees of success on big aggressive pigs.
Loading pistol bullets into a 35 case started out as fun. It soon became apparent this rifle would perform with great results no matter what was run through it. Your critters are much bigger than what runs around here in Florida so I don't know what value if any my data will be. Using 20.0 grs of 2400 behind either the 160 or 207 pushes them around 1800 and 1650 respectively. With 4227 and 23.0 grs, similar velocities are obtained. The noise generated is very tolerable without ear protection in the rifle.
From left to right, the cartridges and bullets in the pictures are;
95 gr jhp Remington bulk bullets
170gr sw cast
115 gr sw cast
155 gr sw cast
160 gr tc cast
170 gr sw cast
207 gr tc cast
250 gr sp Speer
250 gr rn Hornady
I load the heavy jacketed bullets with both of the previously stated charges but have not chrono tested due to the cost of pissing away high dollar rounds. Experience has shown me that the copper clad bullets will run slower than cast with identical charges.
Keep us posted on your big ole bullet project. I'm sending just enough warmth to thaw out a trigger finger without melting any more igloos.
Shoot often, Shoot well
Thanks Roy, I appreciate the warmth. Hell, 45 degrees is almost nekkid swimmin' weather 'round these parts.
Where would I find the thread on heavy boolits in the .35 Rem? I'm sure there is some good info there.
Thanks for sharing your load info. I used my .35 this year to harvest my deer. 6 point, 200 lb, one shot with a Ranch Dog 190 gr over 37 gr/IMR-3031 for 2150 fps. Flattened him, DRT.
I still think the 245 Saeco would be the cat's a$$ for a moose/bear load in the .35. Where I hunt deer there are a huge number of black bears (up to and over 650 lbs) so effectiveness on bear is always a consideration, however remote.
I would cast it 50/50 pure lead/ww and water quench to harden the bullet. After the gas check, sizing and lube, I would anneal the nose of the bullet to remove the heat treating from the nose. Should easily expand down to the crimp groove.
The thread on loading big ole bullets into a 35 rem is under RELOADING COOKBOOK, with the heading, 35 REM HEAVY BULLETS. It would appear as maybe you aren't alone looking for some serious whack out of their 35.
Your plan for casting, water quenching and then annealing seems sound. Are you using alox for lube? What do you size to? I am curious to find out just how versatile this cartridge can be. Shooting that 95 gr jhp is so easy my nine year old grandson is pretty good with it. Even Georgio over in Italy has a 35 rem chambered rifle that he kills pigs with. By the way, we have 200 lb deer and 600 lb bears, but only in the zoo. Best of skill to you.
Shoot often, Shoot well
Thanks Roy, I appreciate the lead.
I size .360 for all my .35 rifle bullets, even the .357 Mag. My .35's and .358's seem happy with that. For lube I use an Alox/Beeswax concoction one of the grand old guys at my shooting club makes. He won't say his secret recipe but I've driven bullets to 2500 fps without problems. I hope he writes it down, he's gotta be 200 years old. I've never tried a bullet that light in the .35 but 158 gr semi-wads drive tacks. I'm sure the 95 gr HPs do too.
I'd be happy to trade our big deer and bears for your winter weather. Florida is a beautiful place.
Gunarea, I see you have a Centennial .35. I bought one of them from a friend several years ago and it is one of the best shooting guns I have. I have never shot a group over 1 1/2” at 100 yards with any ammo. I haven't shot any lead out of it and was wondering about the Saeco bullet myself. I have to search around to find out if that combo would work. If not I believe I would go with the Ranch Dog 35-190 only because I would know that I was getting the diameter needed without a lot of fuss. Great shooting gun without the recoil!
The 207 gr cast bullet shown is from a Saeco mould. My slug runs a bit heavy due to my tendency to cast them hot. Saeco shows that the mould will produce 200 gr projectiles using a #2 alloy. The mould has a sprue cutting plate design that is not so common and must be accommodated.
As to Ranch dog moulds, I don't think you could go wrong on any of them for use in a Marlin. As yet, I have no experience with them, but have heard nothing but praise.
If your centennial model is any thing like mine, it will deliver consistent accuracy across the entire bullet spectrum. Although Marlin made it easy to scope the rifle, accuracy is mostly dependant upon the loose nut on the trigger. I consider myself lucky to have been forced into buying the one I have. Best of skill to you.
Shoot often, Shoot well
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