Today was a good day. I went to the scrap yard to find lead. They has about 600 lbs of WW and 300 lbs of lead flashing and wire. He was willing to sell it for .55 cents a LB. I talked to the owner and wanted to work something out. Telling him I was willing to go to the source (tire shops) or buy from him. He pays 20$ a bucket that weighs about 140 lbs. I offered him 35$ he said nope. .55 cents a lb.:shock: OK OK I know this is a good price compared to buying lead online. So i went on a run to 3 tire shops. first one was a no go. He re uses them. The next shop said 2- 5 gal buckets a month or so. 20$ a bucket. The next way Discount tire. They have 30-45 lb boxes full of new and used WW. 5$ each. So I picked up 10 boxes for 50$. weighed it when I got home , It was 374 lbs:shock: I was told they get about 2 boxes a week. I now have 2 good suppliers. and about 15 more shops to talk to. May as well stock up. I guess I need to get some ingot molds and a way to melt this stuff down in volume.
the search for lead goes on.
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- Last Post 21 May 2010
Seabee Buddy
You have a treasure trove of scrap almost in your back yard. Soon your back yard will look like his junk yard be careful.
Besides what these pyros with their turkey kettles run here is a safe and sane way to process 50 lb of ww an hour beins you are going to ingot them after your clean up the brew. I use allot of parrafin and big spoon. The parrafin brings the sledge to the top when stirred regularly.
Go down to your local thrift store and look for a Kenmore chicken cooker the round tub with electric cord should be cheap to buy. The key here is the stainless tub that transfers the heat directly to the metal forget the teflon models. This s**ker will melt ww fill 3/4 full and spoon of the clips and sludge after heated for about 45 minutes. Do this outside forget the lid. Now you have a casting tool you can use over and over again until the element will not melt lead. I used mine for 25 years before poor baby got tired and I had to recycle it with 20 lb lead in it.
Stephen Perry
Angeles BR:fire
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I use a Fish Fryer (same as a Turkey Fryer) and have processed 650 lbs in an afternoon. Here is my set up (pictured while doing LARGE ingots (65-92 lbs):
I bought the Fish Fryer at Bass Pro on sale for $30.00 and the 12” cast iron dutch oven from Harbor Freight for $20.00. I have done 1000 lbs on that tank of propane and have a bit left.
It IS important to use a good thermometer and keep the melt at no higher than 650 degrees. Zinc weights will float at that temperature and can be skimmed off without damaging the melt (one zinc weight in a hundred lbs of alloy just about destroys the casting ability of ALL of that alloy). So, use the thermometer, keep the temperature low (zinc melts at 780 degrees) and you will have NO problems. Obey all of the safety suggestions - cover your body with clothing (no shorts and flipflops, wear a hat and safety glasses. Keep ANY moisture away from the melted alloy. BE SAFE!
Dale53
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Another question is, Are the flat stick on weights pure Lead? I have a bunch of them. If so What bullet uses a pure lead or this soft of lead? I have 3 black pwoder cap and ball guns. I am not sure what they use. My 50 cal BP rifle too? not ball but what mold would I use? Thank you for your help.
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The stick ons are pure lead, but check 'em anyway for 'Zn', that's zinc, bad, throw away. Use the lead in your muzzleloaders, not an alloy. Keep the pure lead seperate or mark it so it doesn't get mixed up. By muzzleloaders I mean cap and ball pistols and rifles too, unless you use sabots, then I don't know if it matters. Edit #2 Dale, that's a very nice setup you have there.
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That brings on another question, My muzzleloader. I use lead bullets in it. 405 to 520g. is that lead pure or mixed? I have used saots but don't care what i use. I really like shooting 520g pointed nost with 150g BP. Note max load is 700g with 150g BP.
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If you mean the stick on ww, yes, they are uaually pure(or close enough) lead. If you have some factory bullets I don't know what they are, but for a muzzleloader they should be pure lead. If you're talking about a .50 cal muzzleloader that sounds like one hell of a load. My .50's get more like 90 gr. of 2f black powder with a patched round ball. Are you sure you got that load right? It sounds way high to me. What kind of gun are you talking about?
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Ya , that kind of reply is always what i get. I have the book and have shown it many times. The most i ever shoot is 520 with 150 load. I shot at a 4x4 with it and it made perfect holes like a drill would do. never seen anything do that before.
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Dale
Like your set-up looks clean and safe. Goes to show there is more than one way to boil turkey, chicken, or fish and now lead ingots. Heat source is smart saves on electricity. Great casting ahead for you.
Stephen Perry
Angeles BR:fire
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Dale, do your ingots ever tend to “stick” in the homemade mold made of angle iron? I have access to a lot of scrap steel to make my own ingot molds, but have been afraid to try it
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I have cut 1 1/2 tubing in half and started to weld a bunch of them together to make 6 ingot per mold. I made mine 4'' long. I used 1'' flat stock to cover the ends. I have not made the handle yet.
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55 Cents a lb is about what I pay in South Africa. The 15 cents you actually paid is so cheap its a joke. But you are on the right track buying scrap in substantial quantities. Which brings me to something that has always puzzled me. All American sources ( books, magazines, forums ) focus almost entirely on wheelweights as if there is no other usable scrap. There's nothing special about wheelweights except that they are in small pieces and thus easy to handle, and they contain some antimony. But don't forget that you get 75lb of alloy from 100lb of wheelweights after the clips are skimmed off, so you are paying 33% more than the dollar cost.
Take all the sheet lead, pipe, or whatever other form it comes in, and set yourself up to melt it in big lots. Dale53's set up is about the nicest I've seen. We don't have those big fish/turkey cookers in South Africa. I made up a pot from steel pipe, with a stand from angle iron, and I fire it with bottled gas like Dale53. I also made my own ingot moulds from angle like those in his photo, but mine cast one pound ingots for continuous feeding of my casting pot.
The bigger the lots you can melt the more uniform alloy you get. That's the time to blend in the antimony. Its the only practical way to handle scrap.
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Dicko,
I think all the references talk about wheel weights because for a long time, they were free. I know we used to have to pay someone to haul them away in the late 70's. If I only knew then what I know now.....
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Thanks, Bill,
That answers the question. Seems that's changing, right ? Ten years ago I could get plenty of them for the equivalent of five cents (US) a pound. Now they cost me as much as other scrap, so I've gotten used to regarding them as no different from other scrap. But it explains why they get so much attention in books.
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I'm parting out (junking) the last of my big boats, it's a Cheoy Lee Frisco Flyer. The specs say the 2300 .lb ballast is cast iron, but guess what I found? Yep, it's lead. I don't know how much yet, these boats are very tough to disassemble, but I do know at least part of the ballast in the keel is lead. It's heartbraking cutting up an old classic, but this helps sooth my pain. I may be done looking for lead, we'll see.
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I get used WWs at tire shops in my area for the asking, 1 time a manager had his guys fill the buckets I brought for me and got me coffee while they put them in my truck for saving him the hazmat fees.
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Got the boat broke down all the way, there's 7 blocks of lead laid in the keel with mortar. I'm estimating 2,000 + lbs. There's no way two guys can pick up the blocks, tomorrow I'm going to try cutting them up with a 40 lb. electric jackhammer. I keep thinking “be careful what you wish for". It's going to be a lot of work but I think it'll be worth it. I stuck the lead with my pocket knife, it seems harder than pure lead, but who knows? I'll also test for zinc with muriatic acid. Right now I'm thinking I may see what trade value it may have with RotoMetals, I'm only about a two hour drive from them.
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My brother was a boat builder for years down in Florida. I asked him and they always just bought pig lead for keel weights, Tim. So I think you may have a good find there.
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i was looking for some lead to so i checked in my garage and found about 9,000 lbs. like all cast bullet shooters we treasure our metal supply. some of what i have is lino some stero some prue lead and a bunch of wheel weights. Even so i am still looking for more all the time. It wont spoil or become worthless with age. joe gifford aka joe gifford
if you think you have it figured out then you just dont understand
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Bill, what is pig lead? I've heard it many times but don't know what it is. Got a little bacon in it? Joe, maybe 9,000 lbs. is getting close to enough? I hope you don't ever have to move it! I guess it's like primers, you can't really have too much. If this ballast lead pans out ok I'll probably stop buying lead, just take whatever comes along for free. It'll put me over two tons, I'll never shoot up all that.B) Tim
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That large ingot looks like a tractor weight, used to keep the front wheels on the ground. All i have melted down were very close to pure lead.
Ervin
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Tim,
Pig(as in pig lead) is a description of a large, rough casting, from what I understand. It has nothing to do with the purity of the lead. Lead can be purchased in pigs, ingots, etc.
4000 #s. Hmmm. Back in my younger days, my shooting log has between 10 and 12000 rounds per year recorded for 6 years in a row, all cast. At 200gns/bullet, that's 14 years worth. Taking into account I shoot a few 525gn from the 45-70 from time to time, I'd run out about the time I reach 60 (if I still had the time to shoot that much). My goal is 1000# for right now. I'm about 200 short, but knocking it out about 10#/week. That's all I can find around here.
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Just out of curiosity I checked Craig's list to see if anybody was selling lead. There was some. I also saw a few lead wanted ads. Might be another resource for you guys building up your stash. A guy that came to look at a small boat I'm selling said he saw an add by a guy in the bay area (SF) with 20,000 lbs. of lead ballast for sale. Still looking for that one. You guys starting out, don't be discouraged, some of us have been scrounging for a long time to build up the big stockpiles. You'll find some, be persistent. When you pass by a tire shop or recycler you haven't hit lately take a minute and pop in. Some of my best scores have been spur of the moment deals. Even 20 lbs. here and 10 there will keep you busy. Good luck with the hunt, lead is like deer, it's where you find it.
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I have an inch or so think lead plate that was one of many that was used as ballast on a fork lift. Anybody have a good idea how to cut this this thing down to to size so I can melt it down?
Tony
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I've cut lead with a Skilsaw with carbide blade, but it's proably not a good idea. A Sawzall with a fine tooth blade(like a hacksaw) goes thru it pretty good. Either way generates heat, shavings, and probably dust, so protect yourself. I'm going to try a small jackhammer on some big blocks of lead I got.
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I cut up scrap lead pipe with a hand saw. It has a coarse blade, is easy to wax, and you can melt down the saw shavings. Slow speed, so little dust is generated. Fine blades seem to “load up” and will require cleaning. Duane
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I tried using my metal cutting band saw to cut a chunk of lead into pot sized pieces and it locked up and derailed the blade. I had to take the saw apart to put the blade back on. This is something I don't want to repeat. I've been thinking hammer and chisel but that's a lot of work...
I also have about a bar of what seems to be about 6~8 pounds of lead that has “American Smelting and Refining Company” cast into the top of it and a #3 stamped on the back. The fellow that gave to me has passed on so I don't know much about it's origins. It seems to be about as hard as wheel weights and I plan to melt it into my Lee casting furnace with a propane torch since it's too big to just stick it in there.
I've had the idea to buy a cheap dutch oven and convert it to a bottom pour casting pot so I can melt all my lead in big batches so I can have one uniform batch. I have some pure tin bars and I could toss some into the mix to harden it up...
Tony
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That #3 bar sounds like babbit metal which is often mostly tin. Could be you have some 'treasure'.
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Re cutting lead into pot sized pieces, this may sound crazy, but...
I've had good success with an axe held in one hand and a sledge hammer in tother: give it a couple of whacks until the axe is stuck in the lead and then lay on with the sledge hammer with both hands. Cuts really well. If the lead is a hard alloy it tends to fracture early. If pure then you have to cut it all the way through. Easy enough though. I tried a hack saw and then an electric saber saw but the lead acted like a lubricant and gummed up the blade.
Good luck and happy hoarding!
James
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That #3 bar sounds like babbit metal which is often mostly tin. Could be you have some 'treasure'.
I also have an other bar of babbit some where in my gun stuff. I've avoided using it because of the possible other stuff in it. So babbit is OK to cast bullets with? The bar I was first talking about is only about wheel weight harness but the bar I'm sure is babbit, is much harder. I also scored a bunch of tin bars. I added about 1/4” off one to a pot of wheel weights and the mix hardened up fast.
If someone on the list is local to the PDX area, I'd be willing to work a deal to swap tin for softer lead.
I think the ax and hammer idea is about the same a hammer and chisel. I'll try cutting up that plate in the next week or two. It's too bad I don't know where to get more of these fork lift ballast plates. Somebody has to be scrapping out these things...
Tony
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Finally got over to try the jackhammer on the lead blocks. It'll work but will take forever. I'm going to see if I can borrow a torch from a friend.
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Hi all you lead hoarders out there. I get wheel weights for about $1 per kilo here in Darwin Australia. $50 for a 20 litre bucket: about 65kg, produces about 55kg of pure ww lead after ingoting.
I found mini meat loaf tins at K Mart the other day that cast a 3 kg ingot. Teflon lined (non stick) they do tend to bubble the bottom of the ingot: presumably something in the teflon out gassing...?
Good cheap mould for 3 for $9. I'm sure this would be much cheaper in the US.
I go around to the tyre yard every 2 months or so, with $50 in my hot little hand looking for more lead... I feel like a lead junkie! Still, I get the feeling that lead ww are commming to an end in the not too distant future so stock piling may be the smart way to go.
Cheers all, and have a merry xmas!
james
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Try a skill saw with a carbide blade to cut large pieces.Use kerosene for lube.I have cut lots of 2 inch aluminum plate with them.
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I use a stainless steel bread pan to cast ingots with. Makes a 30-32 pound bar. The ingot falls right out when you flip it over.
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I use the fryer set up almost exactly like this one. I speed things up a little by putting a metal tub over the works to keep the wind off. I also point a a propane torch turned low into the vent hole where the air mixes. It makes a hotter burn. Some day I'll figure out a way to bleed a little oxygen from my cutting set in there and rock out! I like the angle iron ingot molds. The ingots stack up on end in the pot and fill it nicely. I put a vise grip on them for a handle. The fryers are cheap enough to get two and mass produce with a buddy. I tried cutting aluminum cans in half for ingot molds and it produced much misery. The lead stuck to the cans.
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I use biscuit molds from my wife's old baking stuff. They make a small round ingot that fits well in most electric pots. The teflon coated work or you could spray pans with PAM or some other cooking spray. Store brands are cheaper.
Bob D
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If you buy some (like I did) look to be sure they are one-piece pans. The ones I got have seperate muffin tins pressed into and flange-locked to the flat piece. When I flipped it over to dump the ingots, some of the tins seperated from the pan. They still work fine, just have to be put back together each time.
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Someone was heard to say that he had good luck with a log splitter to break down large pieces.
Tom
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Dale, do your ingots ever tend to “stick” in the homemade mold made of angle iron? I have access to a lot of scrap steel to make my own ingot molds, but have been afraid to try it
No, that hasn't been any kind of problem for me, EVER. However, it IS important to have the sides slope a bit so that they do not lock the ingots into the moulds. We didn't have to find that out the hard way - we were lucky enough to have thought of that before we made them.
I have a buddy who is a professional welder and he kindly made me three different large moulds. The larger ingot moulds that you see in my picture, speed up the emptying of my smelting pot. Further, they are small enough that you can stack (on end) several in my RCBS Electric bottom pour pots. I generally just cast a full pot (20 lbs or so) at each setting. I keep each pot full segregated until they are sized and lubed and stored in their own storage containers (covered plastic food boxes) all neatly arranged in rows like little soldiers:D. I use the smaller ½ and 1 lb ingot moulds to help with alloying.
FWIW Dale53
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Personally, I like the little 1lb ingots made by the RCBS/Lyman/Lee/Saeco molds. Yeah, you gotta spend a few bucks to get'em but the cool thing is you can fit about 70 of them in a 5.56mm ammo can. My whole lead stash is stored in them. Not fun to move, but way more possible than just a stack of ingots.
In order to get that many in a can, you have to alternate them right-side up, up-side down. They fill the can with almost no room to spare.
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