45-70 350g cast

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  • Last Post 03 March 2017
WI Shooter posted this 07 February 2017

Getting ready for some warmer weather shooting I am looking for information and developing loads to shoot 350 grain cast.  To date I have loaded 300g and 405g using A-5744 and IMR-4198 powder.  My Lyman #49 lists 293g and 330g for cast and has listings 350g Jacket FP both in the Marlin (Lever section) and Trapdoor section.  I am  not interested in the high velocity loads but staying on the lower end.  I like shooting the 405g for best accuracy and am looking to reduce some recoil.

Trapdoor - 350g Jacket FP, IMR-4198 30g, 1293 f/s

Marlin - 350g Jacket FP, IMR-4198 37.3, 1625 f/s

I am shooting a Marlin model 95, 22” barrel.

General question, when you do not have cast data how do you relate cast to jacketed?

With the info I have suggested starting load for 350g cast with A-5744 and IMR -4198 powders.

 

Thanks from western WI.

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tturner53 posted this 03 March 2017

That Ranch Dog design shoots good in my Trapdoor. It is a perfect fit. And is also a good fit in my H&R single shot.

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oscarflytyer posted this 03 March 2017

Have the RD 350.  Just now working up loads for it.  But one I keep seeing for up to 405 grn is 24 grns 2400.  One I am trying.  Also RL 7 and IMR 3031.  Yet to shoot any.

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WI Shooter posted this 23 February 2017

Great job on the flints. Thanks for sharing your picture.

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onondaga posted this 23 February 2017

WI Shooter   My screen name “onondaga” is regional, I live on the Onondaga Escarpment and enjoy flintknapping with Onondaga flint.   Some of my work, replicas of local archaeological finds that I have knapped in Onondaga flint.   Gary

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WI Shooter posted this 22 February 2017

onondaga.  An interesting handle.  Thanks for the reply and encouragement to me in our shooting sport.  I would consider casting but it may be a little late in the game for me to get started.  I had done some rifle loading year ago for my first 30-06 and then for my M1 and now after moving into our house in town I started loading again and have added a 45 Colt rifle and my 45-70.   I remember back as a kid at my grandparents farm, there was a couple old loading tools and one was a mold.  Don't remember the caliber but I used to cast wax bullets. Several years ago when we moved to town, we had an auction to reduce over 40 years of stuff in our country home and make room for the move to town, I sold the old mold and tools.  If I was able I would kick myself in the behind.

I really enjoy the forum and conversing with such fine folks.

Thanks again from Western Wisconsin and all the very best to all.

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onondaga posted this 22 February 2017

WI ShooterI wouldn't quit trying to get interested in casting. I've cast over 60 years and it is my favorite part of the shooting hobby. My favorite and best shooting bullet in .45 cast rifle is the Ranchdog .461 350 FNGC. At this point, I consider them free. My casting station is minimalist and cost less than a box of factory .458 Win Mag that I cast and shoot the most.

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WI Shooter posted this 22 February 2017

Thanks joe b. and all.  Another 2 1/2 weeks to see the Doc and then hopefully get the OK to shoot again.  Had some back problems fixed. I have (2) 405g Laser Cast loads and (1) 300g Hi-Tech coat load ready to shoot first at 50 yards and then at 100 yards. I really enjoy shooting the 405g bullets and have tried the 300g but because of the recoil and back problems want to drop back and try the 350g. Perhaps the 350 and Trapdoor loads will give me the combination I am looking for.  I am not a caster and am working with the Laser Cast right now, with their high Bn number. Really like the LC bullets.  Am open to suggestion for other off the shelf cast bullets for my 45-70.

The Unique comments were also appreciated.  I have found some loading data for Unique in 45-70 but have not tried it yet.  I do shoot Unique behind 250g cast in my 45C Henry. 

I just started loading for my .357 Mag.  To date have been shooting jacketed bullets but am looking into 158g cast. Have been shooting H-110 but going to load with A-#7 and A-#9.

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rmrix posted this 22 February 2017

Any 45-70 bullet from 300-500 grains, any gun, will shoot accurately with 10-14 grains of Unique. Or it won't shoot accurately. 12 grains works fine in most guns.

joe b.

 

Well, two weeks ago, as it turns out I was putting a function test/ammo test together for a 1886 winchester I just did some hammer work on.

Seeing/reading the above, I added 25 test rounds with my Lyman 456 192 bullet. About 360gr in my alloy. Powered by 12grs of Unique and shot against four other loads it was hands down the worst grouping of the bunch.  Even raising the muzzle before placing on the bags only produced 5 MOA 100y groups (vertical). The wind was opening everything up horizontal.

The accuracy winner that day shading out the close second was 58gr of the old FFg Elephant on top of 5gr SR-4759. It put all shots in just a hair over an inch vertical and the wind spread out all groups horizontal.  23 grains of SR-4759 placed second.  

 

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onondaga posted this 08 February 2017

WI Shooter

Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook #4 page 216 has specific recommendations for your 45-70 Marlin 1895 lever rifle and a 350 gr cast bullet:

AA5744 START 35.0 gr 1619 fps MAXIMUM 39.0 GR 1809 FPS @27,900 CUP

IMR 4198 START 39.5 gr 1696 fps MAXIMUM 44.0 gr 1936 fps @27,800 CUP

WARNING: Neither of these powders is safe to reduce below recommended START load. If you want a lower level load use only a powder manufacturer,  recommended load for safety. Recommended Trapdoor loads are also safe for lever rifles. Don't go below them with these powders.

 

Gary

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delmarskid posted this 08 February 2017

what joeb33050 said. this has worked for me for many years.

One more time from me.

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mike morrison posted this 08 February 2017

what joeb33050 said. this has worked for me for many years.

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onondaga posted this 07 February 2017

WI Shooter

The relation I use is my personal estimate that cast bullets have 5% more velocity than jacketed bullets of the same weight and same charge. That is close for me but I always verify with a chronograph.

A practical example: I wanted to specifically develop a 1700 fps load for a cast 350 gr FNGC for my .458 Win Mag with H4895. from voodoo math estimates with a heavier and a lighter bullet I estimated a definitely safe load slightly higher than 1700 fps and chronographed it. My estimate put me ~100 fps faster that the 1700 fps I wanted. Then I used this charge reduction software: http://www.handloads.com/calc/reduced.asp

The predicted charge for 1700 averaged 1702 fps for 10 shots. That is where it still is for my .458 Win Mag., . 57.7 gr H4895 is my Black Bear load to 200 yards. My 9.5 pound all up Colt Sauer Grand African with this Bear load kicks less than a 30-30 lever rifle with 170 gr factory ammo as was my goal.

Either one of your 2 powders is EXCELLENT for your application!

Gary

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Bud Hyett posted this 07 February 2017

In theory, jacketed bullets produce more friction in the bore than cast, i.e., they raise pressures. The difference is very little. Not to say you want to start at the top load, prudence is demanded.   

With starting loads, you can work up and usually you will get the best accuracy long before the highest pressure. With the loads you are describing, this can be a simple interpolation of data. Simplest approach is to go to the starting loads for the next heaviest bullet of similar description. 

I have a Marlin 1895 similar to yours and it likes the RCBS 45-300-FN with Reloder #7 powder at 1600 feet per second. When I lived in Illinois and hunted coyote in the brush on the bluffs of the Mississippi, it was my varmint load.

Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest

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joeb33050 posted this 07 February 2017

BTW, I have some 45-70 stuff, bullets and cases etc, that I'll give you if you want it. send your address.

joe b.

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joeb33050 posted this 07 February 2017

Any 45-70 bullet from 300-500 grains, any gun, will shoot accurately with 10-14 grains of Unique. Or it won't shoot accurately. 12 grains works fine in most guns.

joe b.

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