4831 powder find

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  • Last Post 29 August 2023
cbshtr posted this 22 February 2022

Over the weekend I stopped at a thrift/consignment shop. I found an old corrugated metal keg hand labeled 4831. The weight said 10 pounds but it seemed heavier than that. They were asking $50 for it. It had a pop lid on it. With permission I opened it and it looked fresh and smelled like my other IMR powders with no sign deterioration. Knowing the prices of reloading components lately I really couldn't leave it for what they were asking. Once home I put the whole keg on the baby scale and it was just shy of 22 lbs. I'd say I hit the jack pot with this find. Since most of my shooting is cast is there a practical use of 4831 in traditional cast calibers? I have calibers that are more associated with jacketed but if I could use the powder with cast that would equal to some cheap shooting.

Robert Homan

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Larry Gibson posted this 17 April 2023

What you probably have is a keg of surplus 4831 that was made by Dupont.  This was marketed by Hodgdon as 4831.  That is probably the loading data (H4831) that is appropriate with the powder you have.  Some years back Dupont came out with a newly manufactured power they sold as IMR 4831.  It was/is newly manufactured and is faster burning than the H4831.  I have and use both old surplus H4831 (also have a keg of it) and newly manufactured IMR 4831.  The old original surplus 4831 is slower burning than the newly made IMR 4831.  Newly made H4831 and H4931SC is the same burning rate as the old surplus 4831.  The load data for H4831/H4831SC and IMR 4831 are not interchangeable.  

LMG

 

Concealment is not cover.........

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Dukem posted this 02 March 2022

51.0 grains surplus 4831 in the .30-06 pushing a 311284 that weighed 216 grains. 1,900 fps on the Oehler 35P. Shot decent and used it to kill a deer and had a decent exit wound indicating expansion with ACWW+a little tin.

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RicinYakima posted this 22 February 2022

Ken Waters, of Handloader, used this is straight wall cases, 45/70 and 50/70, just like black powder. Fill the case to the bottom of the seated bullet. They were dirty, but consistent shooters. I used to shoot a lot of it in 30/06 with 220 grains bullets, 50 grains. That was good for 1600 f/s, but again dirty. I used to buy it in the paper sack for $2 a pound as WW2 surplus. Unlike ball powders with lots of additives, wiping every ten shots wasn't a problem. 

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Rich/WIS posted this 22 February 2022

Are you sure it is 4831?  The hand labeling would make me cautious.  

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JeffinNZ posted this 22 February 2022

If that ended up in a thrift shop here the bomb squad would be called.  (sigh).

Cheers from New Zealand

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cbshtr posted this 23 February 2022

I did more research and found a forensic data base for smokeless powders. 90 pages of shape, size, color and luster, etc. The 2 powders that meet the physical description of what I have are IMR 4350 and IMR 4831. So I'm starting to feel pretty comfortable that what I have is IMR 4831. It's crazy all the different powders and the information that they have for each. It also has a search option that you can enter known parameters.

Robert Homan

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cbshtr posted this 17 April 2023

I finally got a chance to try the powder I was trying to identify as IMR 4831. I did a little more research into it. I found that a starting load for my 22-250 Handi Rifle with a 55 grain fmj was only a couple grains above a max charge of 4198, fastest of similar looking powders. Considering the Handi Rifle has a very generous lead, loading to 15 thousandths off the lands, I took the calculated risk that my starting load would be still be below a proof charge. My calculations were correct. Sooty necks and very rounded primers. IMR listed a max charge of 39.5 grains for that bullet. I stopped at 39 and there still was no pressure signs. So at this point I am confident that what I have is keg full of IMR 4831. One thing I did not see, as others posted, was a dirty bore. I only fired 10 rounds but the bore was no dirtier than any other gun I've cleaned. I expected to see a barrel full of unburnt powder granules but there were none. Now that I have completed this little test I can start researching how I can effectively use 4831 in cast bullet loads. I know I won't get the velocity of other powders but I also won't get the higher pressures either.

Robert Homan

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TRKakaCatWhisperer posted this 22 February 2022

did you get enough to share?

 

 

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dbarron posted this 22 February 2022

Worked for me in 308 as well. Mag primers and some unburned powder. Decent if not spectacular groups. Of course I’m not recommending that anyone else try this.

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dale2242 posted this 22 February 2022

I was gifted approximately 30# of H4831 in it`s original 50# cardboard container.

I did a little experimenting with it with heavy cast in a 7.62X54R.

 I am interested in see what others have tried using H4831 with cast.

Larry Gibson has used it and hopefully he will chime in here with some of his sage advice.

It seems I was using reduced loads with Dacron filler and CCI magnum primers.

There was some unburned powder with no adverse affects.

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cbshtr posted this 22 February 2022

Identifying the powder has been on my mind ever since finding it. I've been trying to find a positive way of trying to identify it. I have other IMR powders but I'm not sure if there's a physical way of identifying it. I know loading a 30/30 case to the neck is probably safe with most stick powders. The big unknown is nagging on my mind. Any suggestions on physical identity would be appreciated.

Robert Homan

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cbshtr posted this 04 March 2022

Good to know. Heaviest .30 caliber mold I have is the Lyman 314299 which is close to that weight. Very accurate bullet that I've loaded for deer but never pulled the trigger. I'll have to try it with the 4831.

Robert Homan

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AlKing posted this 29 August 2023

Would you kindly share the link to that database?

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cbshtr posted this 29 August 2023

I believe this is it. It's not the easiest site to explore but you may find it interesting.

https://www.ilrc.ucf.edu/powders/

Robert Homan

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