4227 is gone

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Ed Harris posted this 22 July 2024

In rifles such as the .32-20 and .44-40 I have gotten fine results with 4198. In revolvers I have found Olin AutoComp is more forgiving in less than maximum loads than 296 or H110.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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M1fuzz posted this 22 July 2024

WTH!!! That is my stand by for all things cast!!! Just great. First you can’t get it. Then/now it is crazy priced, now discontinued!!! Come on.

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M1fuzz posted this 22 July 2024

Should have asked. IMR4427 or H4227.

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Ed Harris posted this 22 July 2024

And with Alliant #2400 now being unobtanium we have few options.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Aaron posted this 22 July 2024

The Golden Years are drawing to a close. Powder choices, mold choices, and bullet choices (jacketed) are shrinking. Prices for available merchandise are skyrocketing. Gun imports are shrinking and gun prices, both domestic mfg and Italian mfg have shot through the roof. The Italian guns are now at the upper spectrum of pricing for the “blue collar” market. Ruger has priced themselves off the “blue collar” market. Seriously? A Marlin for $2,000.00? RL7 is a good 45-70 powder. Get some while you can right?

With rifle in hand, I confidently go forth into the darkness.

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trapdoor4570 posted this 22 July 2024

M1fuzz. I was checking the Hodgdon load data this afternoon. They did not list IMR 4227 and H4227 was listed as discontinued. I did not check any load data beside 30/06. Let us hope it is a typo. But I checked Midway, Powder Valley and Graff. All were out of 8 lb jugs some still listed 1 lb cans. I am set for now, probably have around 12 pounds, glad I ordered a jug of 4227 and also 5744 about 3 years ago. I have not fired a round in over 3&1/2 years. My wife of 53 years is terminal and I have been taking care of her. Now have hospice coming in twice a week to bath her and the nurse once a week now to check on her. Will not be firing anything till after she passes and I get everything straightened out. Also I will need to get my mind straightened out I don't want an to have an "accident".

Ed Harris. Thank you very much Sir. No need to worry about me running hot on the loads. On all my .30s & 8mm excepting the M1 Grand and the carbine I start a new gun out at 15 grains of 4227 and the U311291 and work up a grain or 2 at a time till the groups start to open. The hottest one is my 7.62 NATO in a 40X, it is at 20 - 21 grains 4227 and the U311291. I don’t like to brag about the accuracy it gives because I will jinx myself for sure. But I have had flies and bees that have landed on the target. They didn’t stay there too long. It doesn’t take much powder to punch paper at 100 yards. I don’t do matches, there aren’t any down here and I don’t travel, I just shoot against myself seeing if I can still do it. I have a few pounds of 4198 but the groups aren’t as tight, sorry. I just use 4227 and 5744 aka Buffalo Rifle aka D060. My fallback powders are 2400 and H110 but neither one shoot quite as closely as 4227. I am hoping there are new powders on the market that others have had good luck with. I do crazy things to tighten the groups like using a .32 ACP as a dipper to put 3F black in place of my usual over powder wad etc. Still use a Dacron wad, it works the best, for me.

I am getting a collection of half full cans of discontinued powers. Let’s see DuPont bulk, 700 with no x, DuPont black, Curtis & Harvey black, H375, a few other I can’t think of right now. I had 3 or 4 pounds of DuPont IMR 17 & ½ that I spread over the yard because it was turning, it was only 80 or 90 years young.

Sorry if I babble on but I have no one to talk to except my son who calls once a day to see if I need anything.

Jim

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wimilkman posted this 22 July 2024

Here we go again I used to load with a lot of IMR powders for many years 4756, PB, 7625, 800X, 700X. 4759 and 4227 .First 4756 , PB , 4759 and 7625 were gone then 800X then 700X became very hard to find and then unavailable. I was able to buy 4.5 lbs of DuPont powder at our last swap meet for $50.00 took a chance on it and it worked out I got 4756, 4227 and 3 cans of 4759 and a can of Western 231. But now all I have left from that is one can of 4759 and the can of 4227 the Western 231 is gone. I have made the switch to all Ram Shot powders for handgun with the exception of one powder W244 so far they are working out. I sold my Magnum Research BFR revolver recently in 45/70 so I am using up the 4759 in 44 magnum. I only use 4227 in 454 Casull just because I like the way it works.

Fred H.

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MarkinEllensburg posted this 22 July 2024

@Ed Harris 4198 has been unobtainable for months. Hoping it comes back to the market.

Have used 4227 for some cartridges. I think i have a couple pounds in reserve. Might have to see if my local membership store has more, but IIRC I bought the last of what they had a few months ago at a fairly low price. I can probably live without 4227 once I am out. It has never been my first choice. Never given me the best groups in rifles that I shoot in matches. However there is more to life than match shooting.

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Idahocaster posted this 22 July 2024

4227 was all I could get around here a couple of years ago so I bought several pounds of it. I was just getting it worked out in my rifle loads! Now I'll have to learn something else. Like many others I have an almost empty can of 4759 on my powder shelf. I guess I'll start adding to my collection of discontinued powders when there's not enough of the 4227 left to do anything useful with.

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Aaron posted this 22 July 2024

As Ed mentions, Autocomp is surprisingly useful. I just used some in 38 spl loads.

With rifle in hand, I confidently go forth into the darkness.

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Spindrift posted this 22 July 2024

Vihtavuori N110 is an excellent cast bullet powder, that works for similar applications. Vihtavuori makes all their powders themselves, I can't imagine N110 disappearing any time soon.

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Silver_Is_Money posted this 22 July 2024

Accurate 5744 should be in the 4227 ballpark.

Edit: But I also agree with the suggestion for Vihtavuori N110 as seen above.

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gnoahhh posted this 22 July 2024

I use 4227 exclusively in my multiple .32-40's for ASSRA shooting. At 14gr. per shot when breech seating, a pound lasts a good while but jeepers if I want to stick with that load the rest of my days I guess I'll have to pay these usurious prices and stock up on even more than what I have. And no, AA9 and 5744 haven't worked as well for me. 4759 is very good, and I have a stupid amount of it, but it doesn't meter well in my Harrell's for single loading at the shooting bench.

It would seem that Hodgdon doesn't give a hoot about non-mainstream shooters anymore. My theory is it's an unintended consequence of allowing them to be a near monopoly of powder production.

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Bud Hyett posted this 22 July 2024

With Alliant 2400 in short supply, I contacted Vitavhorti about using N-110 in its place. I'd seen several people using N-110 in the .32-20 CPA and wondered if N-110 would work. Vitavhorti replied with suggested loads for N-340 stating this was a better option.

They also stated they are producing powders for all customers including the reloaders. With this pronouncement and both the incerasing prices and incresing scarcity of our traditional powders, I'll be looking at Vitavhorti powders as my decreasing supply exhausts.

Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest

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shjoe posted this 22 July 2024

i read recently that hodgdon has deleted tite group and renamed it high gun. supposed to be the same powder.

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tomme boy posted this 22 July 2024

First we lost 4759. I just found out today 4227 is discontinued. I use this more than any other powder. When is the bad news going to end? Thinking of going to H110 / 296. Any suggestions

Thanks

Sooo where did you hear this? At a gun dealer? I far as i have seen it is not gone but not at the top of the list for production.

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shjoe posted this 22 July 2024

tomme boy, i had been looking for a versatile 12ga powder and on a web forum their discussion was about hodgdons tite group name change to high gun. apparently several of the sites forum members individually came across info of the name change from contacting hodgdon. the key info was that tite group and high gun are the same powder. it may open up more uses for the powder, besides 12ga or rifle/pistol use. i havent contacted hodgdon myself, yet. be well

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Hornet posted this 22 July 2024

I checked MidSouth and Midway and there seem to be 1 pounders of IMR4227 but nothing bigger. I also saw improved availability on Alliant extruded powders, including Reloder 7. I haven't played with it but I've seen it recommended for some cast loads. It certainly isn't cheap though. Also saw listings for IMR 4895 and 3031 also in 1 pounders, again, NOT cheap.

Prices on primers seem to be coming down slowly...

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gnoahhh posted this 22 July 2024

First we lost 4759. I just found out today 4227 is discontinued. I use this more than any other powder. When is the bad news going to end? Thinking of going to H110 / 296. Any suggestions

Thanks

Sooo where did you hear this? At a gun dealer? I far as i have seen it is not gone but not at the top of the list for production.

Curiouser and curiouser. It's shown as "discontinued" in the powder availability column behind every application for 4227 on Hodgdon's own on-line loading data center.

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Ed Harris posted this 23 July 2024

FYI 7.5 grains of AutoComp cycles reliably in the .30 M1 carbine with 110 grain JSP and in 7.62x25 with 87- 93 grain FMJ or the Hornady .309" 90-grain XTP

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Wilderness posted this 23 July 2024

It would be handy to know what powder types/burning rates are required for artillery shells, mortars etc.

As far as we know in Aus, where the stuff is made, 2205/H4227 is on hold, but I've not heard anything about it being finished. The same goes for the pistol/shotgun powders, though there were some production difficulties with them (shifting to a new facility). Surprisingly APS950 has recently become available. This is the replacement for AP100, which is down the Blue Dot end of the spectrum. Retail pricing on the first release of APS950 appears opportunistic.

Of the Australian Defence Industry range, we can still get 2207 (H4198), 2206H (H4895), 2208 (Varget) and other rifle powders without difficulty and at non-gouging prices. ADI is owned by Thales (France). There was a recent press release about France making artillery shells for Ukraine using Australian powders. Last year there was talk of shiploads of powder going to India.

https://www.cleaverfirearms.com/Products.aspx?Category=Powder&Brand=146

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Mike H posted this 23 July 2024

Australian Munitions list the powders they manafacture and their uses,2205(H4277) is listed for 81mm Mortar Augmenting charge.

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mashburn posted this 23 July 2024

Hornet,

Reloader 7 is a great powder. I use it in all of my bigger bore rifles with both cast and jacketed.

Mashburn

David a. Cogburn

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MarkinEllensburg posted this 23 July 2024

Powder Valley shows 4227 in stock, 1 and 8 pound containers with free hazmat on orders over $100. Price seems a bit high.

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tomme boy posted this 24 July 2024

H4227 has not been available for a very long time. Maybe thats what you were told. But to add a little to this, Hodgdon told me that the IMR4227 is actually H4227 now. They discontinued the original imr powder and replaced it with the ADI version and now call it IMR4227. Just don't use older imr with the newer imr. They are different

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Steppapajon posted this 24 July 2024

I was just on the Hodgdon website and was able to add a 1 lbs and an 8lbs of 4227 to my cart.

Shoot, curse, reload, repeat.

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RicinYakima posted this 24 July 2024

IMR4227 is available at the local hardware store for $49.99, the cheapest single base powder in stock. All the others are $69.99 and up. FWIW

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K31man posted this 28 July 2024

I purchased my 8# of IMR 4227 in Aug 2023, only $416 at that time.

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jtcarm posted this 30 July 2024

Glad I still have an unopened 8 and a couple of 1-pounders.

I’ve got 8-lbs of LilGun i originally bought for .300 BO. That gun doesn’t get shot much since my son moved away, so was thinking of selling/trading that and using 4227 for the BO.

That idea just got nixed, unless I can swap it for more 4227.

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David Reiss posted this 05 August 2024

I was trying to stock up because I knew we would have one or two more crazy periods in my lifetime. I purchased 3 8-pounders and 6-1 pounders in 2017-18. Just lucky I guess. I did the same with Bullseye, 2400, 231, Varget and a few others. I predicted the covid crazy would end a few years ago, primers and powder would normalize, boy I was wrong This has been the craziest period yet in my lifetime.

David Reiss - NRA Life Member & PSC Range Member Retired Police Firearms Instructor/Armorer
-Services: Wars Fought, Uprisings Quelled, Bars Emptied, Revolutions Started, Tigers Tamed, Assassinations Plotted, Women Seduced, Governments Run, Gun Appraisals, Lost Treasure Found.
- Also deal in: Land, Banjos, Nails, Firearms, Manure, Fly Swatters, Used Cars, Whisky, Racing Forms, Rare Antiquities, Lead, Used Keyboard Keys, Good Dogs, Pith Helmets & Zulu Headdresses. .

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Aaron posted this 06 August 2024

I predicted the covid crazy would end a few years ago, primers and powder would normalize, boy I was wrong This has been the craziest period yet in my lifetime.

Agree. And the cause, except for greed, eludes me. Please don’t profess “supply and demand” for that is a ridiculous excuse ruined by observation and first-hand knowledge. The market, if it survives a recession, depression, WWIII, or a socialist regime, will never be the same. We were witness to the golden years of handloading, hunting, sport shooting, and casting. Dang.

With rifle in hand, I confidently go forth into the darkness.

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SkinnerD posted this 08 August 2024

There's a 1 lb tub of IMR4227 listed for sale here in NZ. Interesting that seller states it is of Canadian manufacture. $135NZD

John - New Zealand

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MarkinEllensburg posted this 08 August 2024

There's a 1 lb tub of IMR4227 listed for sale here in NZ. Interesting that seller states it is of Canadian manufacture. $135NZD

Is that price comparable with other powders? No idea about the Canadian part either.

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Premod70 posted this 08 August 2024

I’ve tried Vihtavuori N110, N120 and N130 with success in my 30-06’s and will be buying their product exclusively when making new purchases primarily due to cost but equally for their quality.

Forrest Gump is my smarter brother.

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jreidthompson posted this 13 August 2024

H4227 is discontinued. Imr 4227 is not. But searching around indicates that the the current imr 4227 is h 4227 relables

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Tom Acheson posted this 13 August 2024

Interesting how things change.

I wanted to get a pound of Varget. The local Fleet Farm has it (despite rumors that it has been discontinued) for $56.99. But a friend told me that Vihtouri N140 performs similar to Varget. A local Scheels store has if for $42.99. So I bought a pound.

Years ago I'd walk into my local gun shop and cringe as I bought N133 or N135, since that brand was always much more per pound than the "domestic" brands. Things have inverted!

Tom

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Wm Cook posted this 13 August 2024

The hard part about referencing a specific powder’s suitability to cast is that feedback is oftentimes anecdotal. It’s pertinent to the advisers cartridge, bullet and firearm but there’s too many variables to make a broad generalization.

I believe that I4227, 2400, 4759, 5744 and others have the reputation they have because in general they are practical powders to be used for cast bullets. Their burn rates are consistent in a variety of cartridges and a variety of bullet weights.

I would like to think there are other powder options available to cast shooters.

With the price advantage and availability they “currently” have I think VihtaVuori powders deserve a look.

Like I said earlier, I picked up a lb of N110 and heaven permitting I’ll run it through its paces next week. Oddly enough, accuracy will be a secondary goal. I want to see how it ladders up, where it tops off, how the velocity/SD holds consistent when changing primer size, flash hole diameter etc. I plead guilty at being an optimist.

None of that will guarantee me accuracy but it will tell me if the powder is stable for the cartridge, bullets I’m going to be using. Thanks, Bill C

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MarkinEllensburg posted this 14 August 2024

Local gun shop had 2 one pound cans of it the other day. They also had one pound of 4198. Price on each was about the limit of what I was willing to spend. I bought the 4198. It is far more valuable for me.

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