4227 is gone

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Last Post 14 August 2024

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trapdoor4570 posted this 22 July 2024

First we lost 4759. I just found out today 4227 is discontinued. I use this more than any other powder. When is the bad news going to end? Thinking of going to H110 / 296. Any suggestions

Thanks

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trapdoor4570 posted this 22 July 2024

M1fuzz. I was checking the Hodgdon load data this afternoon. They did not list IMR 4227 and H4227 was listed as discontinued. I did not check any load data beside 30/06. Let us hope it is a typo. But I checked Midway, Powder Valley and Graff. All were out of 8 lb jugs some still listed 1 lb cans. I am set for now, probably have around 12 pounds, glad I ordered a jug of 4227 and also 5744 about 3 years ago. I have not fired a round in over 3&1/2 years. My wife of 53 years is terminal and I have been taking care of her. Now have hospice coming in twice a week to bath her and the nurse once a week now to check on her. Will not be firing anything till after she passes and I get everything straightened out. Also I will need to get my mind straightened out I don't want an to have an "accident".

Ed Harris. Thank you very much Sir. No need to worry about me running hot on the loads. On all my .30s & 8mm excepting the M1 Grand and the carbine I start a new gun out at 15 grains of 4227 and the U311291 and work up a grain or 2 at a time till the groups start to open. The hottest one is my 7.62 NATO in a 40X, it is at 20 - 21 grains 4227 and the U311291. I don’t like to brag about the accuracy it gives because I will jinx myself for sure. But I have had flies and bees that have landed on the target. They didn’t stay there too long. It doesn’t take much powder to punch paper at 100 yards. I don’t do matches, there aren’t any down here and I don’t travel, I just shoot against myself seeing if I can still do it. I have a few pounds of 4198 but the groups aren’t as tight, sorry. I just use 4227 and 5744 aka Buffalo Rifle aka D060. My fallback powders are 2400 and H110 but neither one shoot quite as closely as 4227. I am hoping there are new powders on the market that others have had good luck with. I do crazy things to tighten the groups like using a .32 ACP as a dipper to put 3F black in place of my usual over powder wad etc. Still use a Dacron wad, it works the best, for me.

I am getting a collection of half full cans of discontinued powers. Let’s see DuPont bulk, 700 with no x, DuPont black, Curtis & Harvey black, H375, a few other I can’t think of right now. I had 3 or 4 pounds of DuPont IMR 17 & ½ that I spread over the yard because it was turning, it was only 80 or 90 years young.

Sorry if I babble on but I have no one to talk to except my son who calls once a day to see if I need anything.

Jim

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Bud Hyett posted this 22 July 2024

With Alliant 2400 in short supply, I contacted Vitavhorti about using N-110 in its place. I'd seen several people using N-110 in the .32-20 CPA and wondered if N-110 would work. Vitavhorti replied with suggested loads for N-340 stating this was a better option.

They also stated they are producing powders for all customers including the reloaders. With this pronouncement and both the incerasing prices and incresing scarcity of our traditional powders, I'll be looking at Vitavhorti powders as my decreasing supply exhausts.

Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest

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tomme boy posted this 24 July 2024

H4227 has not been available for a very long time. Maybe thats what you were told. But to add a little to this, Hodgdon told me that the IMR4227 is actually H4227 now. They discontinued the original imr powder and replaced it with the ADI version and now call it IMR4227. Just don't use older imr with the newer imr. They are different

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RicinYakima posted this 24 July 2024

IMR4227 is available at the local hardware store for $49.99, the cheapest single base powder in stock. All the others are $69.99 and up. FWIW

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Ed Harris posted this 22 July 2024

In rifles such as the .32-20 and .44-40 I have gotten fine results with 4198. In revolvers I have found Olin AutoComp is more forgiving in less than maximum loads than 296 or H110.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Aaron posted this 22 July 2024

The Golden Years are drawing to a close. Powder choices, mold choices, and bullet choices (jacketed) are shrinking. Prices for available merchandise are skyrocketing. Gun imports are shrinking and gun prices, both domestic mfg and Italian mfg have shot through the roof. The Italian guns are now at the upper spectrum of pricing for the “blue collar” market. Ruger has priced themselves off the “blue collar” market. Seriously? A Marlin for $2,000.00? RL7 is a good 45-70 powder. Get some while you can right?

With rifle in hand, I confidently go forth into the darkness.

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Spindrift posted this 22 July 2024

Vihtavuori N110 is an excellent cast bullet powder, that works for similar applications. Vihtavuori makes all their powders themselves, I can't imagine N110 disappearing any time soon.

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Ed Harris posted this 23 July 2024

FYI 7.5 grains of AutoComp cycles reliably in the .30 M1 carbine with 110 grain JSP and in 7.62x25 with 87- 93 grain FMJ or the Hornady .309" 90-grain XTP

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Wilderness posted this 23 July 2024

It would be handy to know what powder types/burning rates are required for artillery shells, mortars etc.

As far as we know in Aus, where the stuff is made, 2205/H4227 is on hold, but I've not heard anything about it being finished. The same goes for the pistol/shotgun powders, though there were some production difficulties with them (shifting to a new facility). Surprisingly APS950 has recently become available. This is the replacement for AP100, which is down the Blue Dot end of the spectrum. Retail pricing on the first release of APS950 appears opportunistic.

Of the Australian Defence Industry range, we can still get 2207 (H4198), 2206H (H4895), 2208 (Varget) and other rifle powders without difficulty and at non-gouging prices. ADI is owned by Thales (France). There was a recent press release about France making artillery shells for Ukraine using Australian powders. Last year there was talk of shiploads of powder going to India.

https://www.cleaverfirearms.com/Products.aspx?Category=Powder&Brand=146

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Mike H posted this 23 July 2024

Australian Munitions list the powders they manafacture and their uses,2205(H4277) is listed for 81mm Mortar Augmenting charge.

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Steppapajon posted this 24 July 2024

I was just on the Hodgdon website and was able to add a 1 lbs and an 8lbs of 4227 to my cart.

Shoot, curse, reload, repeat.

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David Reiss posted this 05 August 2024

I was trying to stock up because I knew we would have one or two more crazy periods in my lifetime. I purchased 3 8-pounders and 6-1 pounders in 2017-18. Just lucky I guess. I did the same with Bullseye, 2400, 231, Varget and a few others. I predicted the covid crazy would end a few years ago, primers and powder would normalize, boy I was wrong This has been the craziest period yet in my lifetime.

David Reiss - NRA Life Member & PSC Range Member Retired Police Firearms Instructor/Armorer
-Services: Wars Fought, Uprisings Quelled, Bars Emptied, Revolutions Started, Tigers Tamed, Assassinations Plotted, Women Seduced, Governments Run, Gun Appraisals, Lost Treasure Found.
- Also deal in: Land, Banjos, Nails, Firearms, Manure, Fly Swatters, Used Cars, Whisky, Racing Forms, Rare Antiquities, Lead, Used Keyboard Keys, Good Dogs, Pith Helmets & Zulu Headdresses. .

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Wm Cook posted this 13 August 2024

The hard part about referencing a specific powder’s suitability to cast is that feedback is oftentimes anecdotal. It’s pertinent to the advisers cartridge, bullet and firearm but there’s too many variables to make a broad generalization.

I believe that I4227, 2400, 4759, 5744 and others have the reputation they have because in general they are practical powders to be used for cast bullets. Their burn rates are consistent in a variety of cartridges and a variety of bullet weights.

I would like to think there are other powder options available to cast shooters.

With the price advantage and availability they “currently” have I think VihtaVuori powders deserve a look.

Like I said earlier, I picked up a lb of N110 and heaven permitting I’ll run it through its paces next week. Oddly enough, accuracy will be a secondary goal. I want to see how it ladders up, where it tops off, how the velocity/SD holds consistent when changing primer size, flash hole diameter etc. I plead guilty at being an optimist.

None of that will guarantee me accuracy but it will tell me if the powder is stable for the cartridge, bullets I’m going to be using. Thanks, Bill C

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Ed Harris posted this 22 July 2024

And with Alliant #2400 now being unobtanium we have few options.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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MarkinEllensburg posted this 22 July 2024

@Ed Harris 4198 has been unobtainable for months. Hoping it comes back to the market.

Have used 4227 for some cartridges. I think i have a couple pounds in reserve. Might have to see if my local membership store has more, but IIRC I bought the last of what they had a few months ago at a fairly low price. I can probably live without 4227 once I am out. It has never been my first choice. Never given me the best groups in rifles that I shoot in matches. However there is more to life than match shooting.

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gnoahhh posted this 22 July 2024

I use 4227 exclusively in my multiple .32-40's for ASSRA shooting. At 14gr. per shot when breech seating, a pound lasts a good while but jeepers if I want to stick with that load the rest of my days I guess I'll have to pay these usurious prices and stock up on even more than what I have. And no, AA9 and 5744 haven't worked as well for me. 4759 is very good, and I have a stupid amount of it, but it doesn't meter well in my Harrell's for single loading at the shooting bench.

It would seem that Hodgdon doesn't give a hoot about non-mainstream shooters anymore. My theory is it's an unintended consequence of allowing them to be a near monopoly of powder production.

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shjoe posted this 22 July 2024

i read recently that hodgdon has deleted tite group and renamed it high gun. supposed to be the same powder.

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tomme boy posted this 22 July 2024

First we lost 4759. I just found out today 4227 is discontinued. I use this more than any other powder. When is the bad news going to end? Thinking of going to H110 / 296. Any suggestions

Thanks

Sooo where did you hear this? At a gun dealer? I far as i have seen it is not gone but not at the top of the list for production.