Smelting Wheel Weights

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  • Last Post 18 April 2009
mark1911 posted this 12 April 2009

Hi guys and thanks in advance for any and all help. I came across ALOT of wheel weights I now need to smelt into usable ingots. I just wondered if there is a way to determine which WW are Zinc other than a 100 degree diffrence in melting points? I have cast plenty of WW ingots from EBay into bullets but never from WW to ingots. Anything I need to know before firing up my hightech camp stove?

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CB posted this 12 April 2009

The zinc will float to the top as soon as the lead starts to melt. You will need to be diligent in watching the kettle and get that zinc out of there as soon as you can. Better to be a bit on the safe side and if you end up with a couple of ww in the scrap pile it would be better than to ruin a batch of usable alloy.

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mark1911 posted this 12 April 2009

I have considered making a special crucible for smelting WW since they just work so dang well. I have envisioned a 4” or 6” schedule 40 pipe about 16” long with a cap welded to the bottom end. Perforated with a 0.125 diameter hole every 0.500 of surface area for the last 2” on the bottom. Then wrap the portion above the holes with a oven element. I can get a simple adjustable thermostatic switch from Newark or MSC to regulate the voltage on/off +/- 10 degrees. Lead melts at 621.43°F while Zinc melts at 787.96°F this gives 166.53°F diffrence in melting points. call it 100°F for a conservative number. If I set up and hold 630°F to 650°F in theory the Zinc would never melt. I know this sounds like over kill but I have learned to take out any human oops factor when I get the chance. Any thoughts?

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oake posted this 12 April 2009

mark1911 Saw your posts, sent you a private message hope we can get togeather some time. I live south of Clanton

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beltfed posted this 12 April 2009

As was said, keep the temp lower, and get the Zn wws out of there soon. Even tho below the Zn melt temp, I believe they might still dissolve into the rest of the melt. beltfed/Arnie

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RicinYakima posted this 12 April 2009

Beltfed is correct. Once the lead / tin / antimony is liquid, the zinc will start dissolving into the liquid, just like sugar in water. Sort first if you don't want any problems.

FWIW, Washington State is talking about banning all wheel weights that are not iron for 16.5 inch and small wheels at the end of this year. The only other option is the rubber goo that goes inside the tire and is suppose to balance by centrifugal force.

Ric

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mark1911 posted this 12 April 2009

You know the other obvious way to go here is a turkey roaster and a larger pot like a thrift store cast iron dutch oven. I have a good setup for casting bullets I don't want to risk Zinc contamination running the same pot. I also have a good Lyman thermometer. If I start my melt with a couple of pounds of known WW to set the temp I should be OK right? Wifey has a stainless strainer basket that would work great. Fill with WW dip till the Zinc floats then remove the whole thing and dump.

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JetMech posted this 13 April 2009

That depends on how much you try to melt at the same time. A turkey roaster might hold 100# at a time. The temp will not be consistant throughout the melt as you are bringing it up to temp. I start with about 20# and as the regular WW melt the zinc ones float. Skim them then add 10# at a time, skimmming the floaters. Better safe than sorry, cause once one zinc WW melts, you've contaminated the entire pot.

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CB posted this 13 April 2009

I have a friend that is a metallurgist, I will see him this week and see what his take is on this. It seems to me that there should be a sure fire way to do this that is fairly simple.

I did a little reading and found what may be the crux for determining the material makeup of ww.

“A steel wheel weight is 10% larger than a lead wheel weight, and zinc is 10% larger than steel,” he said. “As the weight gets longer, the center of gravity changes, something that would call for more re-spins in the balancing process.

Above is an excerpt from an article I found that gives some insight into one method.

And below is a copy of a post made on Cast Boolits..

"In the past two weeks, I have smelted five 5gal buckets of wheel weights. At least as it applies with the weights being used locally here, I have learned to identify zinc weight visually for the most part. My procedure is to dump out the weights and sort through them to remove trash etc first. As I go through them, I look for any riveted weights which are usually the steel weights. Some steel weights are not riveted though. Doesn't matter if you miss these because you're not gonna melt those. The markings on the weights indicated what they are made of. Zinc weights usually have Zn on them but not always. Some here have posted about using cutting pliers to check each weight. That is very time consuming and tuff on the hands but very accurate. Pure lead will only be found in your stick-ons. Check one of those with the pliers. Lead will mark very easily. That's your benchmark. Stick-ons are also made in zinc & steel. I have learned to identify them visually. Using your benchmark lead stick-on, check some clip-ons. Lead will mark fairly easy, but will be noticably harder than the stick-on. Any thing that is hard to mark with the pliers, throw it out. If you go through enough, you will learn to identify most if not all by sight. Then keep your melt temps on the low side and the zinc will float with the clips. Another good idea is not to start with a full pot of weights. Start with the pot only 1/4 full. When those melt, skim the clips then add more. I have found this gives you more control at a lower heat and gives you the ability to remove the bad stuff before it can melt if the temps get too high. Using this method, you can keep your temps on the low side. With a pot full to the brim with weights, it take quite a while to get them all to melt. I find it is faster to add a little at a time as they melt. Heat transfer to the added weights is faster because of the melt already in the pot. Try it. Smoke and smell is better managed also this way because your can remove floaters as you go. Hope this helps.

Charlie........."

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CB posted this 14 April 2009

I do a lot of smelting of WWs Attached is a picture of what I used last year. I in putting the finishing touch of a building for do smelting and simple small froundry work.

Inside the building, I will use really about the same equipment as I do in my drive way, just up on a table, where it is easier on my back.

Jerry

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R.Clem posted this 14 April 2009

Correct me if I am wrong, WW melt at less than 650 degrees, zinc melts at over 750 degrees. If you bring a pot of lead to 650 degrees and flux it a few times, the lighter zinc is going to come to the surface and be removed as part of that process. I have done this for years with WW to remove the elements that don't melt below 650 degrees and have had very good luck casing bullets that are a little heavier and much more consistent.

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CB posted this 14 April 2009

R.

I use the same logic and it does work, just keep the temperature within the range of just melting lead.

Jerry

 

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canalupo posted this 14 April 2009

Mark,

all this technical stuff makes me dizzy. Liberate a cast iron dutch oven pot from the hardware store,  two quarts or so. Harbor freight has one for $30 bucks or you could find one cheap at a flea market or internet. I use a weed burner with a propane tank for my heat source.

The zinc weights are usually more square than lead and painted gray. If you squeeze the suspect ones with a pair of channel locks or vice grips, you can tell if they are lead or zinc/steel. Try a few you know are lead and you can tell right away to compare. I put all the lead ones in a plumbers ladle and drop them in the pot. once you have a little starting to melt any weights you missed will float to the top and scoop them out with the ladle. Make sure your ladle is hot so the lead does not stick to it.

Use the ladle to pour ingots once you clean the slag and unmelted zinc from the top. I captured some buscuit pans from the kitchen. (My wife doesn't cook so she never missed them).  A soup ladle works if you bend the handle a little. I spray the pan with PAM the cake and pan spray so food does not stick, lead won't stick either.

I don't even bother with the temperature. If the lead gets to hot it starts to get a rainbow look to the surface. Turn down the burner.

The tin will look like little granules floating in the mix the zinc will still be wheel weights if you don't get to the rainbow stage.

Good luck

Bob D

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CB posted this 18 April 2009

All of the above, a lot of zinc WW has ZN stamped into it also, look for this when you have the stick on's, might save you some time before you start smelting. Most of the clip on's are harder to determine.

I use the temperature control approach, Don't have the patience to clamp down on each WW with pliers. Good Luck

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mark1911 posted this 18 April 2009

canalupo wrote: Mark,

all this technical stuff makes me dizzy. Liberate a cast iron dutch oven pot from the hardware store,  two quarts or so. Harbor freight has one for $30 bucks or you could find one cheap at a flea market or internet. I use a weed burner with a propane tank for my heat source.

The zinc weights are usually more square than lead and painted gray. If you squeeze the suspect ones with a pair of channel locks or vice grips, you can tell if they are lead or zinc/steel. Try a few you know are lead and you can tell right away to compare. I put all the lead ones in a plumbers ladle and drop them in the pot. once you have a little starting to melt any weights you missed will float to the top and scoop them out with the ladle. Make sure your ladle is hot so the lead does not stick to it.

Use the ladle to pour ingots once you clean the slag and unmelted zinc from the top. I captured some buscuit pans from the kitchen. (My wife doesn't cook so she never missed them).  A soup ladle works if you bend the handle a little. I spray the pan with PAM the cake and pan spray so food does not stick, lead won't stick either.

I don't even bother with the temperature. If the lead gets to hot it starts to get a rainbow look to the surface. Turn down the burner.

The tin will look like little granules floating in the mix the zinc will still be wheel weights if you don't get to the rainbow stage.

Good luck

Bob D Canalupo,     That painted grey just hit home! I found a bunch a grey ones as I was sorting. I can boot those and go with the floater method. That is exactly what I was lookin for thanks! Mark

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