.358 Win. Or .35 Whelen?

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  • Last Post 04 March 2021
mashburn posted this 20 February 2021

I bought a .358 1-16 twist barrel blank from Ed a couple of years ago. I have three actions to put it on and have not completely made my mind up as of now but getting close. My question to you readers is: Should It be chambered in .358 Winchester or .35 Whelen? I will be shooting both cast and jacketed bullets.Why.

Mashburn

David a. Cogburn

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RicinYakima posted this 04 March 2021

If you are Springfield Armory and making 1000 rifles a day, CNC is the way to go. I have been told that most modern rifles, other than Savage are just crush fit.

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mashburn posted this 04 March 2021

Hello GBertolet,

The builder did a lot of good work on this rifle. I can't see much detail from the picture, but the things you mentioned sounds like a first class custom rifle.

Mashburn

 

David a. Cogburn

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mashburn posted this 04 March 2021

I can cut any thread that exists. It isn't that I can't do it, I just don't like to and I don't even like to look at square threads .I have threaded barrels for some area gunsmiths in the area who weren't equipped to do so. If I walked into a custom rifle smiths shop to have a rifle built, and I saw a CNC, I would go out faster than I went in. CNC's are for production, not custom machine work. When I finish a thread, I have about 98-99% contact. 

Mashburn

David a. Cogburn

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RicinYakima posted this 03 March 2021

Many pre-WW2 designs are square threads, as they  have many advantages over "V" threads. But are harder on old tooling and require greater accuracy. It would not be an issue with modern CNC machinery and carbide tooling.

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GBertolet posted this 03 March 2021

I believe the Enfields are square threads also.

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mashburn posted this 03 March 2021

The thing I hate most about converting the O3A3, is cutting the square threads. I don't know why, I just don't like to cut them. And that pushes me toward the .700 Remington.

Mashburn

David a. Cogburn

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mashburn posted this 03 March 2021

 Eddie,

The .219 and the Springfield03 7MM are safe (well, pretty safe) but 700 Remington and the O3A3 aren't. Thanks for the encouragement.

Mashburn

David a. Cogburn

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Eddie Southgate posted this 03 March 2021

 .358 Winchester in the 03A3 action . No way would I change the .219  with the Neider plate or the 7mm Springfield .

Grumpy Old Man With A Gun......Do Not Touch .

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dale2242 posted this 27 February 2021

I neither owned nor shot either the 358 Win or the 35 Whelen.

Would the nearly 1/10th inch longer neck of the Whelen be an advantage?

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GBertolet posted this 26 February 2021

I couldn't get the size below the 2mb max. I used another camera. I have two muzzle brakes for this rifle. I couldn't get the shorter one to group with the Sierra 225 BT, so the builder sent me a larger brake, which worked much better. Ironicly I switched to the Speer 250 grain Hotcore anyway for my hunt. The brakes load up with cast bullets, which I removed for cast bullet use. The rubber resonator on the barrel, does make a difference in accuracy. Small but definite.

I let the builder go, to add what he thought best. A Douglass 1-12 barrel, Timney trigger, cock on opening bolt, extra power FP spring, Pacific Research fiberglass stock.( I was told that this stock was a prototype, one of a kind, at least back in 2001 it was). The action was blueprinted, receiver was contoured to take Win 70 scope bases,(it was a Winchester Enfield),  metal parts were finished in a teflon bake on finish. Apparently the chamber was cut to minimum dimensions, as no matter how hot of loads I used, and I had some screamers, the fired cases glided effortlessly through my Redding sizer die. Total cost was a little over $1000, with me supplying the action, back in 2001.

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rmrix posted this 26 February 2021

I have a Remington 700 35 Whelen since 1990 new and shot it a bunch. Is there a problem people are having the shoulder moving forward upon firing or with the headspace on these? (not trying to be a contrary)  I have not had that issue. As a cast bullet hunting rifle, it has been outstanding for me with the LBT 275gr SP he made for mine. I only hunted elk with it. As it turned out, I have not had a shot longer than 200yds. All one shot kills.

That is everything I have on the Whelen except,  ... if you only had one rifle....   that 35 Whelen in a bolt rifle and or the 45-70 in a singleshot rifle can do it all with cast bullets.

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RicinYakima posted this 26 February 2021

It is not an issue if you use a Springfield or other controlled feed rifle. Push feeds are iffy unless you always use full power loads.

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mashburn posted this 26 February 2021

GBertolet,

I think that, having the steeper shoulder in the Improved Whelen, would be worth the lack of load data just for the sake of establishing and keeping  proper head space. Of course, you have to consider finding dies. If I went the Imp. route I would probably rent both, rougher and finish reamers and that way, I would just make my own dies.

Mashburn

David a. Cogburn

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David Reiss CBA Membership Director posted this 26 February 2021

 

I tried to post a picture, but the size was too large for the system to handle. I will try my other camera later.


Just copy the photo to paint and then reduce it. Very easy to do.

David Reiss - NRA Life Member & PSC Range Member Retired Police Firearms Instructor/Armorer
-Services: Wars Fought, Uprisings Quelled, Bars Emptied, Revolutions Started, Tigers Tamed, Assassinations Plotted, Women Seduced, Governments Run, Gun Appraisals, Lost Treasure Found.
- Also deal in: Land, Banjos, Nails, Firearms, Manure, Fly Swatters, Used Cars, Whisky, Racing Forms, Rare Antiquities, Lead, Used Keyboard Keys, Good Dogs, Pith Helmets & Zulu Headdresses. .

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GBertolet posted this 25 February 2021

I had originally planned to go with the 35 Whelen. But the rifle builder said he had a 35 Whelen Imp reamer also, and that would give me better headspacing, and the cases would stretch less, plus a little more velocity. So that's what I went with. I took that rifle to Newfoundland Sept 2001, for moose and caribou. 10 days after 9/11, and I was amazed we just breezed through the border, with declared guns, both ways.

Although some load data is out there, good comprehensive load data is scarce, so I was on my own. I was advised by the builder to start at the max loadings for the standard Whelen, and work up. So that's what I did. My settled load was getting over 2700 fps, and over 4000 ft lbs, with a 250 gr Speer Hotcore bullet. I have a detachable muzzle brake on the rifle. DRT on both animals. I don't know how much the gain was over the plain old 35 Whelen, as I don't have a before and after measurement. I know one of the writers for Handloader magazine claims the 35 Whelen Imp is the most worthless wildcat. I tend to disagree. After the hunt, my muzzle brake was removed, and the Whelen Imp is now a cast bullet rifle. Ringing the gongs at 100 yards is it's repurposed use.

If there are any faults with the Imp cartridges, it's in feeding. The sharp shoulder of the Imp case, in some rifles can cause issues. My rifle has a fiberglass stock with a deep magazine well. It holds 7 rounds. If I put more the 5 rounds in the magazine, I often have troubles with the case shoulder hanging up. 5 rounds or less it works fine.

I tried to post a picture, but the size was too large for the system to handle. I will try my other camera later.

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TRKakaCatWhisperer posted this 25 February 2021

EITHER~!

I have the  Rem 700 in 35 Whelen and a Savage 1899 in 358 Win.

Intended to use the 280gr 3858 (or 358008) in the Whelen, but the 1:16 twist hasn't helped accuracy at all.

The 1899 is perfect - slightly heavy but well suited for the caliber.

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mashburn posted this 25 February 2021

Hello Ken, up in the great frozen north country

Ken, I've come to the conclusion that both of us were sprinkled with a wee bit too much gun lovers magic dust shortly after we were born. Maybe that is why both of us have such trouble sleeping, our brains are constantly spinning with new gun building ideas .I used to tell people that I couldn't sleep because I was afraid I might miss something, but I now think, it was the magic dust.

I find your posts very entertaining and informative. Keep up the good work.

Mashburn

David a. Cogburn

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mashburn posted this 25 February 2021

Hello GBertolet

I have always admired the .35 Whelen Imp. It would help maintaining  headspace and give more case capacity for sure. If my barrel blank was a little heavier in contour, I would definitely go for the improved or something like the wild concoction that Ken mentioned about running the 25-06 Mashburn reamer in after the .358 Win. reamer

Mashburn.

David a. Cogburn

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mashburn posted this 25 February 2021

Hello Lee Guthrie

A very informative and entertaining response. I especially liked your response to recoil, "come on in the water is fine" Very truthful.

Mashburn

David a. Cogburn

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RicinYakima posted this 25 February 2021

Ken, How much power do you  need? I have a .358 Norma on a very nice Springfield action from Bob Apex and stocked by  Monty Kennedy. For it to shoot well with cast bullets, it kicks too much. 35 Whelen is the sweet spot with cast bullets, little recoil and enough power to kill elk at 100 yards. Ric

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