.358 190gr "slick coated"

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  • Last Post 19 February 2023
.35Remanic posted this 08 February 2023

Good day I'm new here and new to casts, this is my first post. ordered from Hunter Supply in NM 500 190 gr FN .358 for my .35 Remington. They are listed as "Slick Coated" no lube needed. 

My question is : I have loaded thousands of 180 gr jacketed bullets over 40.0 gr IMR3031 with a good crimp for a couple of Marlon 336 COL 2.50 no issues can I use the same load for these 190 gr "slick coated" casts safely? 

 

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Fitzpatrick posted this 08 February 2023

I would say probably not or not with any accuracy . I would cut back to starting load range and work up , and sometimes mass produced bullets are made for any gun not for a specific gun so accuracy suffers, powder coating hide some of this but bullet to throat fit is always the best way.

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 09 February 2023

possble but not lkely ... i assume these are plain base, no gas check ... about the top end for no gas check bullets is about 1500 fps ....  and at that pressure, with no gc, they will probably slowly leave a little leading ...  keep ahead of this and you can easily brush out these flecks.  at 1300 fps or so with a decent lube and you can shoot forever a with light brushing every couple dozen .

with gas checks, the bullet is probably good for 2200 ... but your pressure is getting high for cast in the 35 Rem ...  I would try for it, but it would need some testing before i would depend on it.  you are up around 40,000 psi with 3031.    If you are wanting to hunt deer with this, remember that backing off  to maybe 35 grains of 3031 with a good flatnose 35 cal.  casting will still flatten a deer just fine. 

If you decide you need a little more speed, you might consider going to a slightly slower powder ... 4895 would be my choice ...it would be more gentle on the bullet ... if you can get enough in that nice 35 Rem case to get 2200 ...

AND ... as mention in other posts ...to get top velocities, the bullet fit is everything ... the rear ... groove diamter * MUST * be close to throat ( not just barrel muzzle ) diameter to seal that hot gas ...  

AND ...for best accuracy, the nose must be pretty close to barrel bore ( as at the muzzle ) diameter ...   the nose isn't so important at 1200 fps but everything is important at 1700 and up ...

let us know how things go .. i am building a 35 ( whelen ... but not really different ) and will be getting into the same fun things as you ... 

oh, and as for buying commercial bullets ... hah, i consider shooting my 30-06's kinda boring ... so a few years ago i started buying commercial cast for 30-06, 308, 300 Sav.  plinking ... coming up on my 2000 th 30 cal. pop can load this very evening ... mostly Badman's bullets.  But ... if i want to get under 2 ma, I have to measure my chamber.. and throat ... and find a mold ... or size the bullet ... to get a snug fit on back and front of bullet.  and even my 7 or 10 grain Unique popgun loads will lead a little if the rear ends are too loose.

hope this helps.

ken

 

 

 

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.35Remanic posted this 09 February 2023

that is an awful lot of information you guys have given me ...thank you. If I find a load that gives me around 1300 to 1500 with these bullets and a seating depth that cycles well in my rifle I indeed will take it deer hunting which is my main reason for using the gun.

Ken they are indeed flat based with no GC...can I simply buy GC and snap them on?

 

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Lee Guthrie posted this 09 February 2023

I cast and load for three .35 Whelens, one of which is an Ackley Improved that has a chamber custom cut by Shilen for a particular cast bullet.  Have always used heavy bullets and load in the 1700-1850 fps range.  Lots of deer taken with them and never had one run out of sight (even in the woods).

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MarkinEllensburg posted this 09 February 2023

that is an awful lot of information you guys have given me ...thank you. If I find a load that gives me around 1300 to 1500 with these bullets and a seating depth that cycles well in my rifle I indeed will take it deer hunting which is my main reason for using the gun.

Ken they are indeed flat based with no GC...can I simply buy GC and snap them on?

 That would be a no. For gas checks there needs to be a gas check shank at the base that is smaller diameter. Checks need to be pressed on generally with a sizing die. Crimp on are best IMHO since properly sized they stay on. 

At our January lever action match at Spokane Rifle Club one member had checks coming off within 20 feet of muzzle. His identity shall remain hidden to save him the embarrassment. If he has figured out the cause he might explain, or not. Needless to say it didn't help his scores. 

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.35Remanic posted this 09 February 2023

Gentlemen I found a few extra minutes to clear my loading bench and play with these cast bullets earlier today. My 3 manuals call the max COL for the 35 Remington to be 2.525", my rifle a Marlin 336 chambers my jacketed 170 gr Speer FN (which is somewhat of a spitzer with a flat lead nose cone) bullets easily at COL 2.500" and I have loaded many many at that length firing them thru the rifle... BUT these casts will not even chamber until seated to COL 2.255" at that with a nice crimp they load and extract perfectly...that seems like a significant difference 0.245, at least to me.The rifle cycles well that should be enough to make me happy, but pressure goes up with deep seating. Does anyone else think that's unsafe if not pushing near max loads (using around 34 gr 3031)

thank you this site is a wealth of help

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 10 February 2023

i have no real data on your deeper seating ... ie reduced case capacity ...  0.25 deeper is enough in a 35 Rem.  to be significant ...but a good guess would be to drop another 2 grains wt and work back up if you feel the need ...

at lower loads watch for goofy ignition ...  a couple kernals of unburned powder left over is ok, but a lot usually results in relatively poor accuracy . ...

a silver lining here is that deeper seating will promote better powder burning ...  heh ... lead bullets apparently dont give a high initial resistance at firing and and as a result some reduced charges that work with jacketed bullets won't ignite well with cast.

hope this helps.

ken

 

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.35Remanic posted this 10 February 2023

It does, thank you

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Spindrift posted this 10 February 2023

I shoot a lot of powder coated, plain base bullets. The coating greatly increase the load tolerance. In 30-06 and .35 Whelen, you can get 2000fps with good accuracy, with no leading.

In theory, you can add a plain-base gas check, which is made to fit PB bullets. I've used these with .30- cal rifles and .35 Whelen. They work well with lubed bullets, which will act approximately like lubed, regular GC- bullets of the same design. With PC/PB bullets, however, adding a plain-base GC does not contribute anything.

Regarding loading weight with cast vs jacketed, this can cut both ways. The cast bullets can provide a superior gas seal, which can result in higher pressure.

I would start with reducing your 3031- load10%, and set COL so you have a little bullet jump (I've found this often beneficial with such bullets).

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 10 February 2023

plain-base gas checks ... i have long thought that a * gas check * that looked a lot like a brass/aluminum thumb tack ..... might be interesting ... just tack it into the base of the casting when sizing ... 

i even thought about running off some of these when i had my production lathes fired up ... but my bean-counter self could never quite allow that ... my cost would be about 20 cents each  .....   would need the same stamper-outer that makes thumb tacks by the millions ... or a gas check stamper ....

i bet someone at sometime has already done this ...

ken

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.35Remanic posted this 10 February 2023

I loaded a half dozen seated at 2.245" COL 35.5 yr IMR3031 Earlier today and shot them into my backstop just to see if I got any pressure issues not for accuracy as the gun is not sighted in for them...yet.

 Well gun went boom, dirt flew, they extracted fine and chambered fine...didn't shoot over a chronograph ( loaned it to my kid he shot a hole in it...kids!)  though I should be around 1800-1900 fps. Now comes the fun of tweaking loads,etc.

Thanks to all for telling me what I should have known to start with! Rev Terry

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tomme boy posted this 19 February 2023

Sage's makes plain base gas checks that would work fine for this

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