Winchester Model 70 '06 rebore to 35 whelen

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  • Last Post 09 December 2009
corerf posted this 30 December 2008

Good evening folks. I haven't posted for many months and before that, almost never. Looking for some “good” advice from folks that have had measurable, verifyable success with reboring and re-rifleing a bolt gun or level action gun. I acquired a Win. Model 770, yes the cheapie version of the 70, this one from about 1970. In 30-06, it had only a few rounds through it before I bought it from a friend who knew no better. The bore is shot, I mean GONE. Corrosive ammo, maybe 40 rounds, uncleaned since 1970! The bore pitting and destruction is like nothing I have even seen in a Mosin Nagant that survived three wars. I am sick that a NO mileage barrel is dead due to lack of care.

Anyway, the receiver is like new (40 rnds). I bought to get the receiver only, knowing the barrel is FUBAR, but maybe not. Jesse Ocumpaugh has been referred to me to do a 35 Whelen rebore/rerifle/rechamber/setback, etc. I have talked with him, he is confident that the outcome will be great. Of course I am a California Electrical contractor and every job I start is “gunna” be just super, then life happens. Mostly their super, thats why I am still in business, but honsetly some work out ok, just ok!

I have been beaten up by the info on forums regarding the process, gunsmiths I use here in Cal. say I am an idiot for the thought. So be it. @ $225 for the whole job, plus some initial shipping, it's a cost effective fix to the bad bore..............but I have only seen forum entries by a few “REAL” persons who could legitimate the accuracy results, but not in any detail.

I like having shooters, I shoot lots of T/C custom barrels with CB's. They do some serious groups.

Is it likely that the Whelen outcome would shoot “BETTER” than the original '06 barrel?? I am striving to make a one inch CB Whelen shooter or better. Maybe I am barking up the wrong tree. 1-14 twist, 2200-2300 fps 250gr GC, Lyman 358318, seems like a good recepie>

Can someone verify an outcome in inches or MOA?? Has anybody done this process who found the work NOT to be deleterious to the performance of the gun?? Or maybe a performance improvement was seen??

A Douglas Palma barrel installed is $425 (in the white), $500 in SS, plus some shipping. I am guaranteed scary accuracy (for the most part) but for $800 investment I expect it to shoot well. I don't have that much money to spend on rehabing a rifle that unless rechambered, is likely to go by the wayside.

What I am looking for is some confidence building from some folks who have jumped off this cliff in the past. I am ready to ship this B/A out to Jesse tomorrow with $$ but I would like to hear form someone who had good results.

He is acclaimed on the NET, I trust much of it.

I was hoping for at LEAST MOA from the barrel after the process.

Thanks in advance to all you seasoned casters:dude:. I look forward to being more involved in the CBA and am preparing for entering pistol matches as well. 2009 should be an active year for me with CB's.

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NoDakJak posted this 31 December 2008

The only 35 Whelen that I have owned was a Pre-64 Model 70 that had been rebored from a 270. I was told that Ackley did the rebore job. Excellent work. Smooth bore with afairly tight chamber and shot jacketed slugs very well. I didn't cast for rifles at that time so didn't get a chance to try them.
Rebores aren't quite like a new barrel. There are many variables involved that can determine the condition of your new bore. If someone is making a new barrel and there is a problem the blank cn usually be bored for a larger size or else tossed in the salvage pile. This is factored into the cost of new barrels. No so if he is reboring your barrel. But! If your old barrel shot well and the rebore went well then it is reasonable to expect the rebore to shoot as well or better. Will it shoot MOA? Will a new barrel shoot MOA? There are no guarntees that a barrel will shoot this well. Just try it and see. Would I rebore it? Probably! I just happen to have a custom FN Mauser with a very bad 22o Swift Improved bore and am considering having it rebored to 257 Roberts. Yeah!! Neil

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35Whelen posted this 31 December 2008

  I can't comment on the Whelen re-bore, several years ago my dad had a Rem. 78 30-06 rebored to 338-06 Ack. He still owns it and it shoots great. It's his elk hunting rifle and he only shoots jacketed bullets. Someone in either Washington or Oregon did, but I don't remember who. I might could find the name if you'd like.

  I'd bet that even if the rifle didn't quite meet your expectations for a cast bullet rifle, it'd be super easy to sell. I say this because as I peruse the hunting forums, I see that the Whelen is a popular caliber.

  I built a Whelen several years ago on a VZ24 action and had a Douglas barrel put on it. I think it's a 1/12 twist but it may be 1/14. So far I've shot all jacketed bullets, but it shoots great. Personally I'd use as fast a twist as possible in case you ever run across a 358009 mould. Those are some loooong bullets.

  Good luck,

   Greg

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Antietamgw posted this 31 December 2008

$225 + shipping doesn't seem like a bad price for a rebore. I do my own cobbling so, in this case, I'd just rebarrel as the cost would be comparable. I've always wondered how the muzzle end of the barrel turns out with a rebore. With a barrel blank, you want to get rid of the last inch or so due to changes in dimensions when the cutter box or button exits. Unless you shorten a rebored barrel I guess you just end up with whatever happens at the muzzle, good or bad. Just the other evening a friend brought over a Rem. 742 in .30-06 to reblue and was wondering about reboring or rebarreling it to 35 Whelen. That's one I have exactly NO experience with and would prefer it sent to someone who does.

Keep your plowshare and your sword. Know how and when to use them.

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R D posted this 31 December 2008

Corerf;      Pardon me for butting in. I have a 35 Whelen in a husky and love it. I have found that some out of the box rifles will shoot MOA with some loads once in a while, and a lot fewer will shoot MOA every group with a special load. You will have a basic out of the box rifle. I don't know of any one that will guarantee MOA accuracy when they can't control every aspect of the job. 

     If you go for a rebore and it does not live up to your desires you can still have a new barrel put on later, I know it means more money but it is only money. What is that compared to satisfaction. You have a good design in your action that is capable of great performance if the whole gun is tweaked a bit.

     A fellow told me once about a land deal that I was worrying about that,” You can pass and regret it forever or you can pay it and regret it for a little while". I have found it to be true for a lot of things. I like a good gun and like to build a good load for one so I would go and risk a little. You might find a great treasure.

R D

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corerf posted this 31 December 2008

OK! Thats what I needed to hear from the veterans. It goes in the mail today. It's a bugger that I have to tool up for another caliber, that means that I won't shoot it until I am tooled but....

My insides told me to do it, much “thinking” went into it. My brain overrides my gut sometimes. My gut takes risks often, calculated ones. This one doesn't calculate as a 90/10 but at least it won't lead (hopefully with good breakin) which the current bore would do like a magnet to iron.

Sorry for letting the brain interfere with a project.

Anybody got a 358318 lyman F/S? I may have to breakdown and call him for 1-12 twist due to availablilty of 250gr GC moulds. There just aren't any being made, sans the more expensive NEI, LBT, etc. I suppose if I get a 358315 to shoot well enough with 1-12, then I could spend the extra dough in the future for an LBT or NEI in 250. Or get lucky with Ebay.

Thanks to all who replied and who twisted my arm enough to “be a man about it"! LOL

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linoww posted this 31 December 2008

NEI's 35-282g shoots well in my Whelen.I cant remember their mold number (#168 I think,the mold is not marked) It shoots better than my Cramer copy of the Lyman 358318.I shoot 27.0 of 4227 and it goes about 1600 and shoots  1.5” at 100 from my Remington Classic 35W.Every so often i get sub MOA groups,but i don't count on it.The bullet also shoots well in my Ruger #1 .357 mag at 1300 fps.

 

                            George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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GBertolet posted this 31 December 2008

Why don't you rebarrel to 35 Whelen imp?The imp will get you another 100 fps or more with full power loads.The regular Whelen cases head space perfect and will fireform with one shot. I have a P17 Enfield sporterized with a Douglas 1-12 twist barrel and detachable brake, which I remove for cast bullet use.. Mine shoots great with Lyman 358315 mold with 21 gr. 4759 at about 1625 fps with Alox lube. My mold drops bullets .360 dia. and thats what I shoot them at.

For hunting you don't need the real heavy bullets unless you are shooting elk or moose etc. The 358315 is great for deer sized critters and general plinking ( I like 8 inch steel plates at 100 yards) If you want to go heavy you might want to use linotype or heat treated bullets with medium burning powders. Good luck!

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aceWarrior,Jr. posted this 31 December 2008

Corerf: If your rebore turns out like the 35 Wh.from 30/06 rem 760 Jesse O.Did for me,you will be happy..fwiw,just y'day I took delivery on a 38/55 rebore from a 30/30 Sav.mdl.170 from Him. highly recommended here... Ace

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corerf posted this 01 January 2009

I lied, I took it this morning to the smith for lapping. I figured for $65 it would get the bejeebees lapped out of it and if there is any bore left with a land or groove that is discernable, the so be it. I told the smith to smooth it for all it's worth, don't worry about loss metal.

He cant do more damage than several wars worth of jacketed bullets could do to era weapons. I can bump the bullets, move up a few thousandths in dia. and get a bullet to seal the bore. At least the wear will be uniform.

I just hope I don't get a .313 when he is done. That's supposed to be funny, but it's not.

I really didn't want a Whelen. The retool was not what I was looking for. So if there is a particularly bad outcome from the lapping, like I can't shoot more than 1 round without plugging the bore with lead, then I will be sending it to Gunbroker, or to Jesse O.

Thanks to all that have responded. I will report back with results once the gun comes back.

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galenaholic posted this 26 November 2009

You really don't want a Whelen? :shock: Hell! I have three of them right now and plan on building two more.

Seriously, I've always been a 30-06 person for more years than I care to count. Since I found my first .35 Whelen, that about all I have used and I'm not looking back.

I'm just starting serious cast bullet work with mine and a bullet I like better than #358315 is the RCBS #35-250-SP. I also have Lyman #358318 in hollow point, RCBS #35-200-FP, Lyman #3589 and a custom David Mos #3589I, a clone of the Lyman bullet with a slight flat on the nose. The “I” stands for improved.

Once I get a good load for that #3589 going, there's a herd of wild pigs I know about and I'm planning to harvest me some sausage material. :cool:

Paul B.

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corerf posted this 26 November 2009

galenaholic--- update on post or gun whichever applies. I like the 35 cal but I am a handgunner more than rifleman. Anyway, I had hopped the rifle would pan out as a shooter but the bore really made me sweat.

I don't remember if I have reported on performance but I will now. I scoped it and have loaded a number of mid powered 150-210 gr values using H4895 principally.

Cut tothe chase, it's a shooter. The lapping took 17 strokes by the smith. The bore is a mirror, with some wrinkles in it from the pitting. The rifling is immaculate. It holds .75 groups at 100 with any bullet I feed it on FL sizing and no case prep. I have done little to work up. Found btw 33 and 35 gr of H4895 make it very good shooting. I will begin to refine the cases for better performance and chrono test as well. I am hoping for .5 inch groups and I believe I will get it and maybe better. As Ed harris suggests, I have been cleaning minimally to maintain the bore condition. It has not seen a jacket since lapping. The action has not been touched except the trigger job, original stock work as well, no bedding. With the bedding in Jan or Feb and a lighter trigger, plus the case work and proper selectivity during loading, half inch should be guaranteed (for at least 5 rounds). The Whelen comment was that I didn't want to tool up for a 35 cal rifle. It throws a bit more lead than the '06 per round and has less vel. which will net a more rainbow trajectory. If I hunt, it is with 357 max handgun or 445 supermag, the '06 is for target work only although I would like to take it to Idaho next year and take a deer with it (but I want to do the same thing with handguns even more so I confuse myself with gun options).

All in all, I got lucky with a bad upfront choice on guns but I have paid a bit more than other options could have netted. End result, I hope to shoot it in postals next year, even if it's not competetive and I am outclassed.

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smokiejoe posted this 29 November 2009

I had a 03A3 rebored in the 60s to 35 Whelan by the TP shop in Mich for the cost of $18.00, Dont remember the twist but it shot the 200 gr. Herter bullet like a house of fire,Put deer down right now.Blowed old car batterys in mini pieces, ect.

 I have had 4 -35 Rems. made up now for cast bullet shooting using twist of 1-17,1-14.,1-12 and 1-10 twist. For heavy bullets of 300 Grs. +  the 1-10- twist is the best,But all round the 1-12 is the best for all wts. Hope this helps. The 1-12 is also good for the 358 Norma Mag. Joe

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galenaholic posted this 29 November 2009

corerf. The ,35 Whelen is a lot flatter shooting than you think. Too many “eggspurts” writing in the gun rags keep saying it's just a woods cartrdige. With 200 or 225 gr. bullets, taking deer out to 300 plus yards is no big deal and and even the 250 gr. bullets work well out past 250 yards. Methinks most people shouldn't shoot even that far unless they do a lot of practice. Tha big fat bullet has a goodly bit of smack down on just about anything that walks in North America.

I've evn shot a .358 Win. out to 250 yards on occasion. Don't underextimate the .35's.

Paul B.

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raytear posted this 08 December 2009

I am late coming to this thread but my .35 Whelen is a rifle I have wanted since I was about 13. It is built on a VZ-24 action, Midway Adams & Bennett stainless barrel--since discontinued--and a Timney Sportsman trigger. The scope is an old Redfield 4-X in Warne rings on Weaver style bases. The action is epoxy bedded as is the barrel thru the chamber area, then free-floating the rest of the way. It shoots most any cast stuff I feed it into 2” or less at 100. I have tried Lyman 358315, Saeco 250 grain--can't remember the number--plus my favorite: NEI 358-282. It does not like pistol bullets, however, whether cast or jacketed. I think that is because the bore diameter is .359.

The NEI bullet cast from WW comes out 295-300 before gas checks are applied. The RNFP profile is devastating on Texas whitetails, Axis deer & feral hogs. Remington cases & 9-1/2 primers, 33-35 grains of AA-2230, bullets heat-treated and sized .359, lubed with NRA 50-50 formula, bullet seated to just cover the top lube groove. Chronographs right around 2000 fps. I'd go after anything in North America with that load and a lot of stuff in Africa. With the right kind of jacketed bullet there is probably nothing in Africa that could not be taken. Every game animal I have hit with it here in Texas just lays down and expires. I'd like to see what one of those bullets looks like, but have yet to recover one as they just blow completely thru, leaving a quarter to half-dollar exit hole.

I am still working on a peak accuracy load, but the Saeco bullet, a kind of semi-spitzer with a small flat point, looks like it has the best potential, given the twist rate in the barrel.

As others have said, it is hard to go wrong with a .35 Whelen. It shoots plenty flat and on arrival the bullet is already about 16% larger in diameter than the .30's.

From the heart of the Texas hill country where it was sunny and about 65+ today.

RMT

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Ed Harris posted this 09 December 2009

My experience with the .35 Whelen parallels raytears. Mine was a pre-war Win. Model 70 SN 3255 with 14 inch twist. Shot 290-gr. Hoch flatnosed bullet similar to the NEI design with caseful of 4831, or 56 grs. of IMR4350 about 2000 f.p.s. Not an m.o.a. rifle, but honest 2 inches repeatable on demand without fail using full power hunting loads. It was a solid stone killer. Sold the rifle, and regretted it ever since.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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crash87 posted this 09 December 2009

Don't know where this post is going, but my 2 cents anyway. I've had a few rifles rebored and without exception evryone has shot better than before. My 35 Whelen started as a repro '95 Win in a 270. The late Richard Nickel rebored it to a .358 w/1:12 twist. At the time 405 WCF were nonexsistant, a 35 whelen with a 300 gr bullet comes close so that was what I went with and why it has that twist. Never did shoot any 300's but 250 gr Speers were/are verrry acurate. I lapped the bore and had Veral Smith cut me a 250gr LCFN gc mold, (actual weight 260gr.) and have never shot jacketed bullets in it since. It wears a lyman peep and I had the front (soldered) sight taken off and installed a ramp, for more sight adjustment if needed, and for a more variety in front sights. Reloader 19 with some plastic shot buffer for filler gives me nice round clusters @ 100 yds, Velocity 2135fps with an extreme spread of 10 fps and that would be for 10 shots! While I have only taken Whitetail Deer with it, I still think back of the hunt I made in Alaska with a man whom has made the 95 Winchester and Big bears synonymous, Ed Stephenson, While I used a 338 Win on that hunt, next time, God willing, this lever will make the trek. CRASH87

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