Choosing a Lubrisizer

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  • Last Post 16 December 2008
Slinger posted this 14 December 2008

I'm new to the site. Lots of info here to catch up on. I used to cast alot some 25 years ago. I sold everything and now I'm considering doing it all over again. I'd only cast/size for say the 45-70,  45 Colt, & 44 Mag. (Marlin 1894 & revolvers). I've heard that the RCBS & Lyman lubrisizers just don't have the tolerances to size bullets concentricly. I don't know anything about the Saeco sizer, and I don't know that I can afford the Star along with everything else I'd have to buy. Back in the 70s & early 80s, I used the Lyman 450, but I never got the accuracy I'm getting with some of the cast slugs I'm using now. Some are hand cast & some are off a Magma. So, what's your advice? Thanks for any input, fellas. If I can make an intelligent choice on the Lubrisizer, I can get through the rest with little problem.

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gunarea posted this 15 December 2008

Hey Slinger

   You are going to get more opinions than facts. While I do have a Star, I also have two Lyman, two different Lee systems and an Ideal. In my circle of shooters there are those who use a RCBS as well as some who do not size at all. Some who swear nose first is the only way to go when sizing and of course those who bump. Making good bullets is not so difficult and those big bullets you are going to make should lend themselves to being accurate with just a bit of care. All of the machines have good and bad characteristics, you will probably be happy with whatever choice you finally make.

   Here are my opinions; The Star is a bit more pricey and does not interchange with other brands, is fussy about some lubes and works best when it is warm. Lyman/Ideal; My Ideal 45 is not so robust as the other presses so it only does 9mm and 38s. The Ideal has a small lube reservoir. The 450 and 4500 will swap most dies and top punches with RCBS but require a little more attention to avoid pushing a slug crooked. I like the plug in heater the 4500 uses. Using a Lee system got me in trouble with my Mother 45 years ago. One spill and liquid lube coating her stove got all my reloading banished from my childhood home. The tumble lubes put lube everywhere, I repeat, everywhere.  For my money, the lyman is what I will replace when they all get stolen. Well that was the Readers digest version of my size/lube experience. Best of luck on your final decision.

                                                                                                         Roy

Shoot often, Shoot well

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primersp posted this 15 December 2008

i use the 2 rcbs/lyman and saeco i prefer saeco the only thing i have to change in 30 years is the leather gasquet in spring handle reservoir i have cut one in a old piece try to find one used be carreful on lyman or rcbs the sizing die retaining nut was not worn regards ANDRE

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acdman posted this 15 December 2008

The Star aside, go with the SAECO. I have used them all it is certainly the most robust and has a superior guide rod set-up to keep the top punch and sizing die aligned. Bit more expensive.

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Slinger posted this 15 December 2008

Do any of the sizers / dies have problems with not being concentric in sizing the bullet? Or, put another way is there a machine that is better in sizing the slugs?

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Largom posted this 15 December 2008

                 I do not size all of my bullets. For  those that require sizing I lub them first in a Lyman 450 with a die  1 or 2 thou. oversize and then use a Lee push thru sizer for the final sizing. Extra work but I enjoy it.

               Larry

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RicinYakima posted this 16 December 2008

Slinger,

Over the last ten years I have tested a bunch of lube and sizers. Some are good and some are not so good, but it is not by brand. The quality of workmanship and casting of the housing are the variables. I have an old Cramer, pre-SAECO, and an old model RCBS that are the best I have tested. The dies all appear to be very good, but if they aren't seated in a clean and consistent place, they will not be straight in the tool,

FWIW, Ric

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Slinger posted this 16 December 2008

So, You're saying that cleaning out the die recess in the press is important in order for it to line up with the top punch correctly, right?  Something else.........I've heard or read that using the machines that work the bullet twice like the Lyman & RCBS hinder accuracy as the lead molecules are rearranged too much & possibly shaved a little. Yes,  No????

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CB posted this 16 December 2008

I have a couple of Lyman 450's, a RCBS LM2 and an old Lachmiller. I like the Lymans best, if you get the Upgrade Kit from Lyman which includes a stronger handle, linkage and ram, they work well. IMHO the Lyman seats gas checks better when done with their gas check seater which is nothing more than a stop you place under the extractor pin to stop its downward travel and provide a hard stop. They load lube easier than my RCBS, but the RCBS due to its design will not leak lube like the Lyman can.

The Lachmiller is the forerunner to the RCBS, but it is designed with internal pressure screw and piston similar to a Lyman. It is strong like a RCBS LM2 but has a weak handle like the older Lymans. I made some parts to strengthen it up and it works like a charm.

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JetMech posted this 16 December 2008

On the initial push into the die, the top punch effects alignment. The second push comes from the rod on the bottom, which, in my case, is a flat punch. The bullet has already been sized at that point and I don't believe the push out will change the shape of the bullet, but, all metals have elastic properties. The bullet bands are still exerting a force on the die walls and when you push it thru the die again, it works the lead a little more. From my understanding of lead alloys, anything other than pure lead tends to soften as it's worked, so I would think that bullets sized in a non-push thru sizer may be a little softer at the bands. How much, I have no idea but if your only sizing the bullet .001 or so, I would think it would not be significant.

As Ric stated, though, it's dependent upon a properly built and operated tool. I've checked the alignment of the push out rod on my Lyman and it appears good. The top punch is another story though, so I'm very carefull when starting the bullet into the die and allow the top punch to float by not locking it in place with the set screw but using some lube on it for retention in the ram.

Just my 2 cents. Alot of folks here have alot more experience than I do with different equipment. I've been using the same sizer for 28 years, so I've adapted to it's quirks and it has worked well for me. Just got a Star this year but haven't aquired any dies yet.

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mtgrs737 posted this 16 December 2008

I have two Lyman 450's and two Star's, I use the Lyman 450's for low quanity pistol bullets and rifle bullets. I use the Star's for high volume sizing, I really like the way the Star's lube. I feel that I get truer sized bullets out of the Stars. On the down side is the cost of the Star's and the Star dies are expensive. I do like the flat bullet punch that the star uses, one punch will work for many different sized bullets, I have four different sizes to do all my sizing.

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RicinYakima posted this 16 December 2008

Slinger,

1, Yes, any lube/sizer will not have the die straight if there is lube under the nut that holds it down, or especially the SAECO that just has a small screw to hold the flange down in the body. Cleanliness is next to accuracy in reloading! Your tooling has to be consistent to make the best ammo.

2, You are referring to heat treated bullets? If so, sizing after heat treatment will work soften the surfaces that contact the die. However with air cooled bullets, I have never been able to measure any difference.

HTH, Ric

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Slinger posted this 16 December 2008

Well, I certainly did get alot of information in a short period. Thanks, Guys!! I appreciate it very much. I'll probably go with the Lyman 4500 with a heater. I probably won't use the heater as I'll likely use a soft stick lube, but I'll have it if I need it. Just picked up about 240 lbs. of wheelweights this morning, so I'm acquiring what I need a little at a time.

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