IDENTIFYING LEAD

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  • Last Post 11 December 2008
NFG posted this 27 November 2008

Something went haywire with the Casting Ladle thread...some kind of fatal error keeps popping up....any way

I wanted to thank Jerry again and ask more questions...Thanks again Jerry.

I went to town and picked up 25# of WW's.  In the box was several large 4-5” round ingots and a couple of 4” balls (sinkers I think)...plus lots of roughly 12” long, roughly 5/8” dia  lengths of “lead"???.  It was clean and a dullish light grey.  I could cut it with my fingernail.

First Question...HOW do I determine if this stuff is “good” for casting and not “contaminated"... just by looking at it.  There was several hundred pounds of the stuff not including the WW's...40 cents a pound.

Also there were lots of sinkers among the WW's...and I have lots of heavy lead sinkers bought 40 years ago when I ocean fished a lot.

Second Question....is sinker lead OK to use?

Thanks again.

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hunterspistol posted this 28 November 2008

:coffee Well, okie dokie. My first thought would be to see that the miscellaneous lead is as hard as the wheelweight. Now, this isn't the official hardness test but, in the absence of a good way to tell, look up a hammer!  If you have a concrete floor or slab and a hammer, you can tap the wheelweight with about 5 pounds of force, then do the same tap on the other lead. Chances are the other lead is going to be softer, some may be pure lead. If not, you'll know it may not be what you want to cast.

  You can also use a punch, center-punch both to see if the depth of a punch mark varies. If it goes way deep on some of these(past what it would in wheelweight), you have some pure lead items. If it doesn't go as deep, set it aside, it may be something other than lead.  Although, it's hard to get an actual measure from a small wheelweight, you can always pour yourself an ingot or block from wheelweight as a place to start.

     I recently poured some lino-wheelweight alloy bullets and water dropped them. To see the difference in hardness, I stood the unquenched and quenched side by side and hit each one with the same force, with an 8 lb SLEDGE! You could see the untreated one bend, the water quenched just bent at the top 1/4” of the bullet.

     Necessity may be the mother of invention but, experimentation is the prodigal son! Aw, kidding.  Sure, experiment away. If you have an ingot mould things get easier too.                                                                            Good Luck

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hunterspistol posted this 28 November 2008

  Your assessment of being able to cut it with your fingernail is good, means the stuff is wheelweight or softer possibly.  Sinker lead is hard to evaluate only because nowdays they have went to using 'junk lead' for sinkers. It used to be a fairly hard alloy.  I wouldn't want to contaminate a potful of good lead blindly but, I'd try it based on whether or not I thought it was good lead.

     I do some alloying with linotype, the best way that I've found to straighten out a mess is to weigh the bullets after the fact.  I use nothing but straight wheelweight(and it varies, too.) for the first casting session. Then I weigh the bullets to see how close to the actual weight I can get. Light bullets get elimated, Mid-heavy ones within 1/2 grain of each other are match weight, heavier ones get tossed.  That eliminates the air voids, impurities and sludge from light bullets and gets rid of the almost pure lead heavies.   You'll find that with a bullet scale, you can find a medium range that shoots best, and the rest can get re-poured.

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NFG posted this 28 November 2008

Thanks...I was afraid an “after the fact” operation would be required.  Nothing is ever simple. I have a couple of spring loaded “automatic” center punches that would work well I think.  Not having any casting equipment limits my efforts...although I have other ways of melting the “stuff".  Next time I hit town I will take my punch along and check things out.

I'm not sure just how far I will go with the casting project.   I have a supplier for 600 and 730 gr slugs and just found one for 880 and 1000 gr 12 ga slugs, at an average cost of $1.00 apiece, plus I have my knee pads on trying to hustle up some 1400 Darwins...so I might just stick to buying “store-boughts".  For the cost of getting set up with the casting equipment and a mould I can buy roughly 500 slugs...That will keep me going for as long as I'm liable to be standing. :shock:  :cool:

Too many toys, not enough time, not enough money, always playing catch-up...man life can be a bich some times.  :puke: :vio::cusout:

 

Thanks again  :wav3:

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hunterspistol posted this 29 November 2008

 I offset the cost of equipment by buying the Lyman Master Casting Kit, the press for cast bullets is about the same as the total cost. For $140, all you'd need is a mould and sizing die and corresponding top punches. Molds are high in cast iron, but the other sizing equipment is a $15 item.  Lee has some slug molds that aren't expensive and a five gallon bucket of lead is about 200#s. That's a heck of a lot of slugs!

     Your equipment cost disappears in the second year that you have shooting supplies running out your ears! As prices go up, the value gets better.

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JetMech posted this 29 November 2008

I would seperate your various alloys (WW, sinkers, etc.), cast into ingots and hardness test them. I made my own tester for nothing from this site: http://www.mountainmolds.com/bhn.htm>http://www.mountainmolds.com/bhn.htm Easy, simple, cheap and accurate.

Just be sure and flux those wheel weights as soon as they melt and skim off any that haven't melted by 650 degrees. Those have zinc in them and are no good for casting.

Once you know the hardness of your various alloys, you can blend them to achieve whatever hardness you need. I don't know what slugs normally go, but I would think a BHN of 10 or less would be sufficient.

 

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NFG posted this 29 November 2008

You're right there and the Lyman kit was the first I looked at but I ran into hangup right off. 

The slugs I planned to use are 0.730” dia and I didn't run across a sizer that big except as a custom made specialty item which ran the cost up.  I can use the slugs as cast from the Brooks mould, so sizing isn't really a problem.  I also wanted a bottom fill furnace and settled on the Lee Pro 4 as the cheapest for my needs so that basically eliminated the Lyman Kit.  A hardness tester is also required to do the best job of keeping the hardness within some kind of equilibrium.

The slug mould is $250 alone and that is half the cost of the project.

I also considered my other large bore shooters, 338 '06, 9.3x62mm, 375 H&H, 416 Taylor, 45-100 and 458 WM and buying molds for those calibers...over time... it would reduce the bullets costs for those and also work well for hunting down loaded, but I can down load the jacketed bullets and I only shoot about 100 rounds each a year in those.

Basically, I'm just starting to run out of steam, don't hunt anything much larger than deer and I can collect one of those in my front yard almost anytime...with a 22.  I stopped pistol competition shooting a long time ago when my eyes went bad and I started shaking, but I still shoot my bolt action pistol varminters all the time...AND...the worst part...I run out of play time in the year, I'm getting spread too thin.  I'm thinking about selling, trading, etc some of my big bores just to reduce the inventory.  I spend the winter loading up for the 2-3 months of varmint season. 

I have worked out two loads already...one using a Lyman 525 gr slug and one using the Dixie 730 gr slug...both for defensive purposes in my Mossy 18.5” cyl bbl, both are just below the maximun recoil level and multiple shot recovery level.

The heavier slugs are for hunting purposes and are designed for use in the NEF USH modified to 13- 15 lbs to handle the increased slug weight and attendent recoil level.  Once the loads are worked out, usually less than 25 slugs/bullets, the balance will be used for hunting, maybe a bit of “lesson in humility” for those that keep spouting how much their 300 or 338 WM recoils, :P :shock: or just a plain reminder of what the old boys in Africa went through in the way old days. :D

I still shoot up a lot of 17 and 22 cal bullets on varmints, but those rifles a loaded to max velocities...4000 f/s and above...and cast bullets don't fit in that milieau.

I basically tried like heck to talk myself into investing the roughly $500 for the minimum required items...mould, pot, harndess tester...and maybe a sizer...and I'm very easy when it comes to anything gun related like buying a new toy...and I will continue to hustle myself...I haven't totally eliminated the casting project yet....I hit the salvage yard every time I go to town for steel and aluminum for my lathe/mill projects, so I will continue to pick up a few pounds of lead each time.

I may also change my shooting preferences...I'm getting interested in longer range shooting using my 45-100...I set up a 600 yd plus range not far from my house for checking out varmint loads and medical problems have curtailed my boonie walking to not much more than gettingout of the PU and walking behind a tree to piddle...back and knees are shot to he**.  Even walking the 200 yds back and forth between my loading shack, bench and target is a chore...and I refuse to use the ATV for that.

Anyway...enough whine

Thanks again for the interest and the information...

Enjoy your toys.

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hunterspistol posted this 30 November 2008

 The best hardness tester that I've seen, Veral Smith's at LBT.  Looks about the right style for me, anyway. 

    I have an idea what you mean about shooting. I wear bifocals now and my hands are giving up.  I shoot a lot of  .22 lr just for fun and live close to the range.  Medical problems haven't gotten too bad although, I have a plate in one wrist. Any way you look at that, it's the recoil one, right or left.

     I cast and shoot for entertainment, like a little competition but, it isn't going to take me over or anything. Don't mind an audience, don't mind shooting alone either.

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NFG posted this 30 November 2008

I hear that...I haven't seen Veral's tester, missed that one somehow but I will check it out.

I still shoot my 22, 357, 44 and 45 pistols pistols.  All but two wear scopes now.  I don't use sightes much anymore out to about 20-25 yds, instinct shooting is still working full time down to about cottontail size...chipmonks thumb there noses at me tho'.

Arthritis is getting into my right wrist, trigger finger and right thumb so I can't grip as well...two hand holds for 44, 45 and above and I need to put some kind of gripping material on my heavy recoiling shotguns and rifles to they don't jump out of my right hand.

This getting old really s**ks doesn't it.

I never compete with anyone except my self and usually was too busy working on loads to bother about who won or not.  It was strange at times...some people would get downright P.O.'ed sometime when I was online and started shooting flies off my target especially when my group happened to be looking good enough to win. :X  :shock::D  That was only for trophy's...any goodies up for grabs was completely different...I did my very best to take home all “turkeys"...won a rifle, and auctioned it off and gave half the money back to the club. 

Thanks for the Veral information...I will check him out a little closer...I've read some of his information, but was probably looking for something specific and anything else just went flying by...

Also thanks Dollar Bill, I will check that tester out also, and for the temperature information...I haven't come across much information on casting temps yet and will get that information into my bullet casting diary post haste .  I almost missed your post somehow.

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CB posted this 11 December 2008

As that I own a machine shop, I do have a commercial grade hardness tester on hand. LBT's is a good one for most casters.

The problems that I have seen are things like WW that contain cadmium, that has a an orange coat of the surface when melting them, plus this is a very deadly chemical to be melting in your lead pot.

Some time testing alloy is by melting it and see what colors come to the surface. The thumb nail test is a pretty method, but not infallible.

Most of the time I look for the color of the metal, which old stuff looks kind of ratty and gray, new should be shiney and silvery gray.

Fishing weights are junk lead unless you know the caster and even then they may not what the lead contains. I have a guy sitting on 350 to 400 pounds of sinkers and thinks there are worth a fortune, but no one seems to be buying them.

Sometimes you just have to take the chance, but if you find a really great deal and no one else has bought the lead, think about why it is still there.

Jerry

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NFG posted this 11 December 2008

Thanks again Jerry...the impurities are the problem...getting a snoot full of the wrong stuff can make for a rough ending.  I've done a lot of welding on “stuff” I couldn't even guess what was painted then ground of or made of...I do know some of it was the old “Red Lead” stuff from bridge steel, and some of it was of a military nature...I keep expecting to start growing extra pieces and parts or just stop breathing altogether.  :shock: :X

I'm still looking at the prospect of doing some casting on a limited basis, but only if I can't buy the slug weights I want to play with.

 

Enjoy the holidays.

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CB posted this 11 December 2008

NFG,

I know this is treasonous to say, but check Gun Broker for wheel weights that have been cast into ingots. The person who cast them into ingots is probably still alive.

Merry Christmas,

Jerry

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NFG posted this 11 December 2008

Yeah...I did check GB and several other sites offering lead ingots....but who is to say the guy selling them is the guy that cast them, and have you seen the caster lately???....hahahahahahahahahaha...just being facetious. 

Casting lead is probably as safe as riding a bicycle down the street or driving to work in your car...everything in this world has a level of risk...even getting out of bed and the most dangerous places in your home are the bathroom and kitchen...not counting a teenagers bedroom...not to mention an old bachelors rat nest...and I've been know to frequent those locations on a regualr basis.... :wav3: Hahahahahahah

Enjoy

 

 

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