30-06 problem free reduced loads

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  • Last Post 10 February 2020
gard72977 posted this 01 January 2020

I'm a new member here. This is my first post. I purchased the CBA books vol 1-3. I have learned enough to see I didn't know squat. I realize I wasted my money on a Ruger no1 in 30-30.........now.

I would like to have a discussion about reduced 30-06 loads. My goal is a trouble free load for offhand shooting @ 100yds punching paper and ringing steel. I do not want to deal with shoulder set back and I don't want to oil cases.

I started this a couple days before I received the CBA cast bullet books. My first attempt was the RCBS 180gr SP Hitek coated with GC sized .309 Brass was range pick up trimmed and cleaned with no other prep W/ 10gr Unique Offhand and bench groups were great. I was as having a good day.

I have tried NOE copy of 311299 with 11gr of unique with almost as good results.

I ordered a neck bushing that is .0015 under my average case after using the M die (will work for all brass I checked). I also ordered the correct part to measure headspace with my Stoney Point tool. Should be here soon.

I would like advice on a Unique loads that will not have shoulder set back. Im open to other powders but I don't want to use fillers.

The rifle is a Smith Corina 1903A3.

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Ross Smith posted this 01 January 2020

311-122-fn Noe bullet, gas checked. 11 gr.unique sized .310+ shots great in my 1903 Springfield. Like shootn' a 22.

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GBertolet posted this 01 January 2020

Ruger #1's in 30-30, are great guns for cast bullets. You didn't waste your money.

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RicinYakima posted this 01 January 2020

Don't worry about shoulder set back in your 03A3! It has a claw extractor and the firing pin can not drive the case forward more than the tolerances of the extractor hook. You only have to worry about that with push feed actions, i.e. Remington 700's. Ten to 14 grains of Unique is a standard target load range for the 30/06. Also, don't worry about the primers being a little flattened; it is not from pressure, but the case filling the chamber and preventing any headspace issues. HTH, Ric

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Bud Hyett posted this 01 January 2020

Ric has the correct answer for shoulder setback and standard loading; the 03A3 claw extractor and Unique powder. This combination gives light recoil and good accuracy for many shooters. 

The only addition I will add is to try sizing at .310 or even .311, however, all my RCBS .30 caliber molds have dropped bullets at .310 with hard alloys that give a greater diameter. Sizing at .311 may mean you only seat the gascheck and lubricate the bullet without touching it. 

The RCBS 30-180-SP mold was the first .30 caliber mold I bought probably 37 years ago and it was the best choice at that time. This was before the the growth of custom mold makers and RCBS was just entering the casting field in a big way. With a new .30 caliber rifle, it is the first bullet I try to see what will work.  

Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest

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gard72977 posted this 01 January 2020

Thanks to RickYakima's post that cleared up shoulder set back I'm going to work up a load for the RCBS 180gr SP. Accurracy was great. The bullets we're Hitek coated not lubed. I'm using range scrap lead with gascheck. I will work on the load making one change at a time to see what works.

Cost is a issue. I shoot a lot. This gun is just for fun and will see a lot of rounds ringing steel. Maybe 100-125 an outing. I will still shoot another gun the same day for training with small bore Sillhouette or Service rifle hipower (I only practice the 200yd offhand right now). I love offhand shooting

Wasn't it Lee Iacocca that said "America wants Economy and will pay anything to get it." He was talking to me.......

I just want to thank everyone for the information.

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Ed Harris posted this 01 January 2020

If you don't have Unique, you can accomplish the same thing with 6-7 grains of Bullseye or TiteGroup, 7-8 grains of 231 or 8-9 grains of WST or 452AA.  NEI is no longer available but Accurate 31-155D does as well in the '03.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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M3 Mitch posted this 02 January 2020

I have long used the 3118 as my favorite plinker 30 caliber bullet.  I scored a 4-cavity Lyman mold when they were having a "clean out the attic" sale back in the 80's some time, it has been a great mold for me.  I load it over a light charge of Unique or 2400, I think I got the 2400 load from Ed, in one of his Fouling Shot articles, I think the 2400 charge is like 16 grains, but, don't load anything based on my recollections, consult a manual.

The 3118 will stay on a beer can for me, offhand, out to about 80 yards, but not so great at 100.  I wonder if the meplat on the bullet is big enough that it goes unstable just past 80 yards?  Need to measure it. 

The above is mostly with a 1948 MY Model 70, (30-06) with a Lyman 48 peep, the way Oliver (Winchester), William (Lyman) and God would want it to be.  One of my favorite rifles, really.  Yup.

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jeff houck posted this 27 January 2020

I'm late coming to this post. I use an RCBS 180gr. FPGC with 10 grs. of Bullseye for my 100 yd. load or 13 grs. of Unique for my 200-550yd. load. The bullseye load is about 1250 fps and while MOAish at 100 yds. it's pooped out at 200 yds. The 13grs. of Unique is about 1450 and 1.5 MOA all the way out to 550yds. These are fired in my match graded 1903 Springfield '06 with a Lyman 48 peep sight.

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Rich/WIS posted this 04 February 2020

My solution for 30/06 and 243 is to segregate cases by head stamp and then select a brand for mouse fart loads.  The selected brand gets the flash hole drilled with a #29 drill and loaded with 5 gr Bullseye and a 120 cast bullet.  Heavier loads (13 gr Red Dot/16 Gr Blue Dot) go into a different brand case.

Curious about your comment on the No1 in 30/30,  why do you feel you wasted money?

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Bud Hyett posted this 04 February 2020

I also drill out flash holes for .45-70 black powder loading. I use my W-W brass since it is thinner walled. I have Starline, R-P and Federal for my other rifles with smokeless loadings

I have told my son and two close friends of this to assure after my passing that these W-W cases are separated. This was with the admonishment that enlarged flash holes raise pressure.  

Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest

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gard72977 posted this 04 February 2020

My Ruger 30-30 has no throat. After reading the cast bullet books I bought from this sight the front sling band causes a tight spot in the bbl.

I like the gun but If I had it to do over I wouldn't buy it.

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Brodie posted this 05 February 2020

Well, seat the bullet a little deeper in the case.  Every gun is different, I have a Husky 9.3x57 that has a throat like Marylin Chambers.  Very little of the bullet is left in the case if I load it to the rifling.

 

B.E.Brickey

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 06 February 2020

...the 30-30 has a very long neck, so if your chamber really has no throat ... Saeco and RCBS has some long-nose molds that should work pretty well ...

can you really detect a tight spot in the barrel with a tight patch on a cleaning rod ? ...

if you really want to let that r1 in 30-30 go, i bet you can get your full investment back.

ken

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gard72977 posted this 06 February 2020

I have several 30 molds and only 1 will work. It's the Noe 311-127. My seating die will not seat the bullet.

I put a shipping container in for a shop. I have machine equipment but it will be spring/Summer before I get everything wired and ready to go. I will make an extended seating plug with correct contour to seat the Flat Point bullet.

The gun was just not a easy success. I want to throat it for a Hitek coated fat bore rider. It's just going to sit until I get to it.

I work a lot of hours and for now I will shoot other guns that are working for me.

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Brodie posted this 06 February 2020

Before you toss it in the trash, PM me please?

B.E.Brickey

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Rich/WIS posted this 06 February 2020

If you can feel the tight spot when cleaning call Ruger. Have read of this before with a No 1 and Ruger had the owner return the rifle and made it right.

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John Alexander posted this 06 February 2020

Bud wrote: "I have told my son and two close friends of this to assure after my passing that these W-W cases are separated. This was with the admonishment that enlarged flash holes raise pressure."

Bud,

Have you ever seen an actual test reported that showed that enlarged flash holes raise pressure?  I have heard this conventional wisdom forever but have never heard of any proof.  I know it's a reasonable theory just like a perfect 11 degree crown is needed but -------? 

I don't want to hi-jack this thread.  Maybe start another thread with a warning and a reference to proof.  If this is actually true all CB shooters should know about the danger. On the other hand if there is nothing to it except a long life of being repeated we should know that too.

Thanks.

John

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 06 February 2020

gard72977 

thanks for posting your adventures with your R1 here ... please keep us updated as you get time ... and also be sure to let us know if we can help in any way ...

..if you can wait a week or two until my shop gets back above freezing, i would be happy to cut you a nose punch from your sketch ... heh, i have a lot of steel rod left from before i retired .

ken

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TRKakaCatWhisperer posted this 06 February 2020

Bud wrote: "I have told my son and two close friends of this to assure after my passing that these W-W cases are separated. This was with the admonishment that enlarged flash holes raise pressure."

Bud,

Have you ever seen an actual test reported that showed that enlarged flash holes raise pressure?  I have heard this conventional wisdom forever but have never heard of any proof.  I know it's a reasonable theory just like a perfect 11 degree crown is needed but -------? 

I don't want to hi-jack this thread.  Maybe start another thread with a warning and a reference to proof.  If this is actually true all CB shooters should know about the danger. On the other hand if there is nothing to it except a long life of being repeated we should know that too.

Thanks.

John

 

John - read Sharp's book on reloading - there is an article on just that, with the proof.

Tim K

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RicinYakima posted this 07 February 2020

I have never seen any tests, just opinions. However, if you load one of those cases with close to a full load, it will crack the primer and dump gas onto the bolt face. I have first hand experience with that.

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John Alexander posted this 07 February 2020

Ric's first hand experience is good enough for me.  Also thanks Tim for the reference to Sharp's book. I no longer have a copy but maybe someone will quote Sharp's work in a warning thread so skeptics like myself will avoid accidents.  

John

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BigMan54 posted this 07 February 2020

Never drilled out a flash hole, never thought I had to.

I partial size all my Cast Loads, sort of like sizing for a T/C Contender or a SMLE. 

Set up that 1st load to hold the case hard against the breech face. Never worry about it again.

 

Long time Caster/Reloader, Getting back into it after almost 10yrs. Life Member NRA 40+yrs, Life S.A.S.S. #375. Does this mean a description of me as a fumble-fingered knuckle-draggin' baboon. I also drool in my sleep. I firmly believe that true happiness is a warm gun. Did I mention how much I HATE auto-correct on this blasted tablet.

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beltfed posted this 07 February 2020

The 311316 which is the gas check version of the 3118 has worked very accurately

out to at least 100yds in light 30 cal loads with Unique for me such as

for Springfields, 30 carbine, Ruger BH 30 carbine,etc.

I did pre prep cases for such light loads in the 30-06 by drilling out flash holes according to this old practice.

JUST MARK the cases so they don't accidentally be used in full loads.

In the 03 and 03a3 and M1917, All cast bullets shoot best sized to 0.311.

beltfed/arnie

 

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M3 Mitch posted this 07 February 2020

I have never drilled out flash holes for my supply of brass that I use with light loads and the 3118.  I do keep one box of brass, an MTM 50 round box, that I use just for squib loads, thinking they might have some shoulder setback, but am shooting in a pre-64 M70, so that claw extractor is probably keeping the shoulders from setting back (much).  With light loads of Unique, and with light loads of 2400, they have provided trouble-free plinking for me.  Not sure what the fuss is about, unless one is using a push feed action, and even then, I have some of those, have not had any problem.

I have to chime in and agree with most that the #1 in 30-30 should not turn out to be a "turkey".  Ought to be a good shooter unless the barrel band is actually causing a tight spot in the barrel, as stated Ruger would make that right if you asked. Try bullets like the 170 grain flat point Lyman (I forget the #) which was originally intended for the 30-30. 

I have Sharpe's book and will try to remember to look at what it says about drilling out flash holes.

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TRKakaCatWhisperer posted this 07 February 2020

Page 35

 

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gard72977 posted this 08 February 2020

Ken thank you for the kind offer. I have a lot going on with new rifles right now. To be honest the Ruger is low on the priority list. I will get to it with time.

The 1903a3 seems to really like .309 Hitek coated bullets. It will chamber .312 bullets. In my experience the largest bullet that will chamber shoots the best. This rifle does not like that.

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 09 February 2020

gard72977 sez

" It will chamber .312 bullets. In my experience the largest bullet that will chamber shoots the best. This rifle does not like that."

ok, my old only known ironclad No.1 rule is now not so iron-clad ... 

new only known rule No.1 :   the biggest bullet that will chamber is SOMETIMES the most accurate.  

ken

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gard72977 posted this 09 February 2020

Ken - I have not shot any traditionally lubed bullets in this rifle. My best load was the first I tried with Hitek coating sized to .309 . I have shot some Powder coated bullets with good results up to .312 size. I'm really thinking I has something to do with the coating

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 10 February 2020

gard72977

yes, i have always thought that having throats bigger than groove diameter is not the best for accuracy ....  that extra lead has to randomly go somewhere when it is squeezed in the main barrel ...

wouldn't it be better to have a smooth throat the same diameter as the grooves ? ...

... and so we think of the lowly 22 rf.  chamber and throat :: nearly the same as the groove diameter.   although they still don't shoot 1/4 minute with the gooey alloys we use,    ... even most hardware store 22 squirrel rifles will shoot about 1 moa with good match ammo ...  

and so i have always though a good cast shooter rifle would be a match quality heeled bullet rig ... oh no !! ... the 30 Rook !! .... ( or for me, a 6mm Rook ) but with a precision 14 twist barrel and  165 gr    ( 90 gr. ) castings.

*************

yes, plastic coatings are worth following .. please keep us informed of your adventures.  the " easy accuracy with cast " answer seems to be always just in front of us ... ( g ) .

or maybe 1.5 moa really is the answer and we are there already ...

ken

 

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