i have a Uberti Lowall in 22lr. have had no success to get this rifle to shoot a decent group at 50 yds. have tried every different brand of ammo i can get.
i have a question for anyone with experience. if the bbl is set back one inch and a new chamber is cut with a match reamer could i possibly see postive results.
before you ask the best group i can get is 1 3/4 - 2.00 in. at fifty.
thanks
mike
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Before you start such a undertaking do the obvious, ie., check the crown for any possible problem. Next are your groups round or stringing. If they are stringing you have a bedding problem. If they are round go to the next step. Sit down with about ten different brands of ammo and carefully fire groups looking for how each brand of ammo shoots in your rifle. One or more brands of ammo will do better than the rest. You may find that you are happy with this result. If you decide that you need to rechamber, you do not need to set the barrel back more than one thread. Then a gunsmith can rechamber your rifle to your specifications. You might want to read up on .22LR match chambers so that you will be sure which you want to have cut in your barrel. The preceding is JMVHO. Of course YMMV. Sincerely. Bruce.
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You might want to try cleaning the bore real good and push a soft cast bullet through from the muzzle and the breech. Just to check for taper or tight spots. Pushing the slug in an inch or so and tapping it back out and measuring will give a good idea what if the bore is tapered. If it's tight at the breech then it most likely won't matter if it's a match chamber or not.
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Mike, you certainly got some good advice. If you're going to take the chance with the factory barrel, you certainly need to have the bore slugged. There seems to be something wrong that a single-shot low-wall 22 can only shoot 1 3/4 group at best. If you can do the set-back yourself or have it done reasonably, by all means experiment. The 22 chamber is the heart of accuracy on the little 22lr................Dan
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Another low cost quick fix is to fire lap the barrel.
Sometimes the barrel finish is less than desirable and fire lapping can help smooth it out.
If you have only a couple of hundred rounds through it, you may want to consider this option prior to spending for a match reamer and going through all of the work and expense.
Many suppliers sell a fire lapping kit with pre abrasive embedded ammo in different grits. Sinclair Intl and Champions Choice are two that come to mind.
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Before doing anything expensive, be sure you've tried the match grade ammunition - things like RWS R50, Eley 10x, and others that offer genuine competitive accuracy. Unless things have changed a lot the last few years, the standard grade .22 ammo just doesn't have it.
Good luck. Grouch
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thanks to all, i have had this rifle for 4 years. i have changed the front sight to the one i took off my browning bpcr rifle the rear sight is a parts unknown souel sight. the gun has had seeral thousand rounds thru it. more than 5000 for sure. the bore is shiny and looks verry smooth. i have firelapped it with 320 followed by 600. i bought a accurizing tool from Paco Kelley to see if this will make any difference. i have tried cci green tag, wolf match and match extra. i don't have local access to other match ammo so i have not tried it. crown on bbl is good. i shoot 22 bpcr some with this gun and feel it needs to shoot better than it does for this competition. i feel like i have tried everything. still looking for any help before going for a new bbl.
thanks
mike
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Mike, from my experience I doubt that any other ammo is going to do you any good. My match-chambered guns will shoot .7"- .5” in groups at 50yds with just about any kind of ammo. Here are some targets shot with my stock Ruger 10/22 with original barrel set back .4” and re-chambered with a match reamer.............Dan
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howdy folks, have been gone from here for a while as my puter would not let me in. finally got that fixed today so i am back. i decided i would either set the bbl back in this gun or rebarrel. so i ordered a match chamber reamer from midway. made by ptg. it seemed real sloppy in a bbl i tried it in so i tried it in several and same. i checked and the pilot was .214 i have a std reamer form climer and the pilot on it is .216. this just did not seem right so i called ptg and ask they said .214 is their standard gind on that pilot. i sent the reamer back. may order a manson reamer but need to know more about the pilot size. what should it be. seems to me a match reamer with sloppy pilot fit is a waste of time. i plan to turn a pin to fit into the bbl to see what size it is but have not so far as the weather is rather cool and no heat in the barn. any pointers will be appreciated. thanks mike
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Mike,
I just happen to have a new Manson reamer in my hand that was delievered from Brownnell's yesterday. Pilot surface is 0.2162".
HTH, Ric
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Get ahold of Dave Kiff at Pacific Tool and explain to him the problem. I am sure he will take care of it.
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Get ahold of Dave Kiff at Pacific Tool and explain to him the problem. I am sure he will take care of it.
I 2nd that Mike. Most reamer manufacturers carry several blueprints on 22lr match specifications. Talk to Dave to let him know what you intend to use the reamer for. Calfee has 2 or 3 designs with Pacific Tool that ought to work well as any.............Dan
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i suppose i will not contact ptg as i have returned the reamer to midway. the lady i talked to at ptg was real nice but had to go ask someone before she could respond. maybe i should have ask to talk to someone else.just in case let me say i am not flaming ptg. just stating the experience i had. looks like i will need to purchase a reamer somewhere. thanks to all for your helpful info. mike
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Well, wherever you go, one of the tightest diameter 22lr reamers I know of is the 'Freeland' reamer. Next to that it is hard to beat the 'Winchester 52' reamer. Both are top notch match reamers an ought to chamber in your single shot action.
Be sure to use a steady jig to hold the back of the reamer from floating out the diameter................Dan
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When dealing with PTG it is always best to deal directly with them and not through anyone else. Midway gets mass produced stuff. When you deal directly with PTG you generally get a far superior product.
I have several PTG reamers and I have had nothing but good luck with them. Dave Kiff is one hell of a tool maker and he stands behind what he makes.
I have tried other reamers from Clymer and Dave Manson that have not been the best experience.
If you want a specific size chamber reamer and talk directly to Kiff, you will get exactly what you ask for.
At least that has been my experience with him.
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dan and jeff thanks for the info. i may just give dave a call. i am real dissatisfied with this rifle and sure want to get things right. am i expecting too much to ask it to give me your basic one ragged hole at 50yds? ten shots. i have other centerfire guns that will do this with cast boolets. i also have a marlin 94 in .357 that will not. thanks mike
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Mike, if you like the single shot and want to keep it, I can't imagine why it wouldn't shoot like you want. Most any rifle I've rechambered with a match chamber reamer cut the groups in half from what it was before. These are hunting type bolt-action rifles.
When I want to keep the old rifle in original form, I reline it with a Redding liner and get the groups you are talking about. Like I said before, the chamber is the heart of the 22lr rifle, probably over 95% affecting accuracy.............Dan
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You have to be careful with short, tight match reamers intended for bolt rifles such as the Freeland or Winchester 52D in semi-autos, as with ammos close to maximum cartridge dimensions you may get slam-fires.
My Gun Digest article from some years ago, Build an Accurate .22 Auto has several prints for reamers which work safely, function well with all ammo and give good grouping in semi-auto target pistols and rifles such as the Ruger 10/.22
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
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the rifle in question is a uberti made lowall in 22lr. any suggestions on a particulsr reamer for this action. mike
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the rifle in question is a uberti made lowall in 22lr. any suggestions on a particulsr reamer for this action.
mike
The Winchester 52D type is a bit easier chambering than the Freeland, which is shorter. It should work well for the lo-wall.
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
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Many years ago, I ordered a match reamer from a respected reamer manufacturer. The pilot was too large to chamber in my particular barrel. THAT is when I learned that .22 barrel specs are all over the place. I sent the reamer back to the same company and had them make me a separate piloted reamer to fit my barrel.
The pilots are aluminum and fit tightly in the barrel and the reamer pivots on the INSIDE of the pilot. That way, you can turn a pilot to fit YOUR barrel. I have had a gunsmith friend chamber several different .22 barrels and liners with the same reamer, only changing the pilots with EXCELLENT results.
I and two friends spent most of one summer reaching serious conclusions about .22 barrels, actions, and chambers, etc. We were on the range three times a week that summer but it sure was worth it. We agreed that if all of us were unable to produce a result from a particular theory, then it didn't count(:>)). Good stuff came from that summer!
Clymer was my reamer company but they can only do what you tell them to do, if you know (or conversely, you can LISTEN to them with excellent results). Get a good match reamer (Ed Harris certainly knows what he is talking about) with a removable pilot. Then slug your barrel and send the slug (you really ought to send several) to Clymer or your reamer manufacturer of choice. That way you'll get the best chamber you can have.
By the way, I am not familiar with the Uberti low-wall but I have a good bit of experience with original Winchester low-walls. The original low-walls breech blocks were beveled on top to help seat the bullet. The Winchester action has a breech block that is not quite a right angle to the bore but while that angle helps to lock up tight is does little to seat a bullet in a tight match chamber in that falling block rifle.
What we did is specify an Auto Match Chamber for use with falling block rifles and have done several low-walls with excellent results using this Auto Match Chamber (made for 10/22's). If the chamber is TOO tight you'll have problems seating a bullet with the low-wall in a “too tight” match chamber.
On the other hand, a Stevens 44 or 44½ action as well as a Ballard has enough “rocking motion” in the breechblock to greatly facilitate seating match .22's in a tight match chamber. BSA International Martinis use a long bevel in the top of the pivoting breechblock to properly seat a cartridge in a tight match chamber.
Dale53
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I have a Stevens 44 .22LR which I relined with a Redman liner. The chamber was cut with a Manson Match reamer. I have not done extensive testing with the rifle yet but preliminary work has shown it to be capable of an inch at 100 yds, benchrest. Very promising given the “cheap” liner and my less-than-perfect vision. The chamber is very tight but as Dale said the rocking motion of the Stevens action seats the round nicely. Ammo used so far has been Wolf Match Extra.
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it seems the more i learn the less i know. based on info given here i have a question. just exactly what is the difference in the match reamer and the match reamer for semi autos. i know size but specifically what are the differences. i also have a 10-22 i rebarreled many years ago hence the std reamer i have. at that time i did not know of the bentz chamber reamer. with this discussion it looks like that bbl needs to be set back also and rechambered. would this reamer work dual purpose for me in the hiwall and the 10-22? if so $$$ saved. so much to learn, everyone is appreciated. thanks mike
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sorry, correction hiwall should have been lowall. mike
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Mike. Most all the 22lr reaming work I've done has been on guns where the bolt is recessed for the rim of the cartridge, not the barrel. I can run the Bentz reamer in short and make the round chamber tighter for a little bit more accuracy.
Your low wall needs the rim recessed in the barrel, so you will have to run the reamer in almost all the way. I find that a tight single shot action will need to be closed twice, if the chamber is too tight, to get the round chambered completely and shoot accurately. Not such a good thing.
You can use the Bentz in your low-wall and ought to have just as good of accuracy as any other match reamer. The Bentz is .0019"ID bigger at the base and .0016"ID bigger at the front over a standard match reamer. The Bentz is .0787” longer. It surely is better than a bad factory job or better than a hunting reamed chamber with all dimensions up to .10” bigger over the Bentz!
If I were to use the Bentz, I'd take feeler gauges and measure the gap between the block and barrel when closed. If it is tight on say .006” or .010", subtract that from the recommended .043” headspace. Stop the Bentz reamer short and check headspace with an un-shot de-mil 22lr match cartridge of some sort, calculating for the difference. Without the lead bullet in the cartridge, you'll be able to tell headspace completely from the rim, with no interference from the bullet engraving.............Dan
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thanks Dan did i miss something? does the bentz reamer not have a rimcutter? mike
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Look at a bolt action 22lr and the head space is in the bolt, so you don't cut all the way with the rim, just flush. All the reamers have a rim area cut.
What I'm saying is if you cut the chamber the full way into the barrel to the .043” head space, it may be too much. You'll have a few or more thousands out to the action block. Keep that at the minimum and you'll still have plenty of room in the front of the chamber to feed a round with no problems...............Dan
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thanks dan, that is what i thought you meant but for some reason i had the question. better for the answer now than later. i called to order a reamer on monday and found all were at the shot show. as i was disappointed its was good because now i will order a different reamer. thanks again. mike
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well i made a decision to go with the bentz reamer. i set the bbl back .800. i had to go this much so i could cut new dovetails for the lever spring and the mounting of the forestock. i don't think i gained a thing except the experience of it all. if it works for me here is a pic of the gun and one of a target i shot today at 50yds. looks like cci std. or green tag worked best from what i had to play with. this is not any better than bdfore. maybe i should have went with the match reamer or maybe i need a new bbl. to all that responde. thank youl
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here is another pic. can't figure out how to put two on the same post.
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Sorry it didn't work out for you Mike. Looks like there is something wrong in the bore of that barrel to shoot that bad. It will be interesting to see you get something like a new Green Mountain octagon barrel (to go with the period) and see how it would shoot. At least they are moderately price against the BR manufacture barrels. I never hear bad things about em, only good..............Dan
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