22 Cal. Low Velocity Small Varmint Failure

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  • Last Post 27 December 2010
linoww posted this 19 May 2008

Cleared a field of Sage Rats for a friend this weekend.Due to the close proximity to other farms and fields i took my quiet plinking load in my 22-250.It was the Lyman 225438 as cast lubed in Lee alox with 4.5 of WST(Winchester Super Target) The load is good for 1” or so at 50 yards and about 3” at 100 out of A Stevens 200 sporter.It is in the 22RF velocity range and noise level.Alot of the little guys made it back in their holes it took a pretty solid shot to stop them in their tracks.Most shooting was under 50 yards.My load with the RCBS 55FN at 2100 blew them up last year.I expected better with the 225438 load,but i guess really it is just like 22 RF solids.

George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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KenK posted this 19 May 2008

My 52 grain .22 bullet; cast of wheelweights, muzzle velocity of 1,375 fps, shot through 11 1/2” of wet newsprint at 50 yards.  There was no visible deformation of the bullet and the bore riding section would still fall into the bore.

I would not expect a rat to slow it down much, though I admit I have idea what a sage rat is.

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linoww posted this 19 May 2008

My 52 grain .22 bullet; cast of wheelweights, muzzle velocity of 1,375 fps, shot through 11 1/2” of wet newsprint at 50 yards. 

My bullets skimmed off of the soft dirt they were hiding in most of the time.I tried taking some shots at rats hiding behind their burrows and they didnt penetrate through the soft loam.

Anyway sage rats are a pretty small rodent about 6-8” long.Here is a internet picture i found of them.My shots were too graphic to post<G>

George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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KenK posted this 19 May 2008

Cute little buggers.  Got any recipes?

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JeffinNZ posted this 19 May 2008

I'd use a 225415.  That FN does the job.

Cheers from New Zealand

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linoww posted this 19 May 2008

My RCBS FN is similar to the 225415 but with a bit larger flat.Works well at high velocity and shoots better than the 415 in my rifles.Although my friend shoots the Lyman 225462 at 2300 out of linotype and they are very destructive despite the RN profile.Maybe it's combination of velocity and nose shape??I will find out again at the end of week when i get out there again with the RCBS bullet.

 

George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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gussy posted this 19 May 2008

I thought you said you only take head shots????:dude:

:coffeeGus

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jhalcott posted this 19 May 2008

George did not shoot those rats, he got the picture of the net!

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CB posted this 20 May 2008

Ken Sure I have a recipe!

Dig a hole about 12” deep, plant rats horizontally, cover well and plant something edible on top. Water well and harvest in the fall.../images/emoticons/134.gif

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PETE posted this 20 May 2008

 George,

  You didn't mention what your alloy was but if your MV is in the .22 RF range I'd go with a soft bullet. Say from pure Lead to about 1-30 Tin/Lead.

PETE

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linoww posted this 20 May 2008

PETE wrote:  George,

  You didn't mention what your alloy was but if your MV is in the .22 RF range I'd go with a soft bullet. Say from pure Lead to about 1-30 Tin/Lead.

PETE

Lino with scrap,BHN unkown,but hard.

Do you think the soft bulltes would help? When you shoot them with 22 RF the big step up is with hollowpoints.The 225438 bullets acted just like 22RF solids as far as (lack of)killing power. The 22RF bullets are already pretty soft.I'll give it a shot though.

 

George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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linoww posted this 20 May 2008

gussy wrote: I thought you said you only take head shots????:dude:

:coffeeGus

Take them,but never hit them

 

George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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gussy posted this 20 May 2008

linoww wrote: gussy wrote: I thought you said you only take head shots????:dude:

:coffeeGus

Take them,but never hit them

 

George

Yep, I've had that problem myself.>.>

:coffeeGus

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billwnr posted this 20 May 2008

linoww wrote: My 52 grain .22 bullet; cast of wheelweights, muzzle velocity of 1,375 fps, shot through 11 1/2” of wet newsprint at 50 yards. 

My bullets skimmed off of the soft dirt they were hiding in most of the time.I tried taking some shots at rats hiding behind their burrows and they didnt penetrate through the soft loam.

Anyway sage rats are a pretty small rodent about 6-8” long.Here is a internet picture i found of them.My shots were too graphic to post<G>

George somma 'em look like babies.:shock:

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linoww posted this 20 May 2008

billwnr wrote: linoww wrote: My 52 grain .22 bullet; cast of wheelweights, muzzle velocity of 1,375 fps, shot through 11 1/2” of wet newsprint at 50 yards. 

My bullets skimmed off of the soft dirt they were hiding in most of the time.I tried taking some shots at rats hiding behind their burrows and they didnt penetrate through the soft loam.

Anyway sage rats are a pretty small rodent about 6-8” long.Here is a internet picture i found of them.My shots were too graphic to post<G>

George somma 'em look like babies.:shock:

Here is a picture of one of  "my piles".The blown up one was shot at about 5 feet.I am heading out again thursday with my hi-vel cast loads.I am going to hold off for a trophy “buck squirell" rather than a doe or fawn.My best  to date  scores .01 Boone and Crockett .

George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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PETE posted this 20 May 2008

 George,

  Well, I wouldn't want to guarantee that a softer bullet will improve the killing power, but if anything will it would have to be a softer bullet. From your posts I gather you don't want to increase the MV and that's the only thing I can think of would be to up the MV to about 1500 fps, and also use a softer bullet. I've found 1-25 & 1-30 expand a bit at that MV.

  Nothing says you can't hollow point a few softer bullets either to increase the chances of expansion.

  Not having shot any Sage Rats I'm not familiar with what kind of resistance a bullet meets up with on them. From your pictures there doesn't seem to be much to them so possibly nothing will give you instant kills all the time. Maybe head shots is all you'll be able to expect for that.

  With tongue firmly in cheek, maybe you need to anchor them with a shoulder shot, and then finish them with a second round. :) Ala dangerous game!

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linoww posted this 20 May 2008

  Nothing says you can't hollow point a few softer bullets either to increase the chances of expansion.

Veral Smith reccomends splitting the noses with foil betewwn cavities while casting.I may try that.I hollow pointing a few,but the resuklts were rather bad as far as accuracy.I held the loaded rounds in a Wilson  holder with a fixture to center them up,but the HP's were not consistantly centered.The nose would also crack with the hard alloy during the drilling process.

 I can think of would be to up the MV to about 1500 fps, and also use a softer bullet. I've found 1-25 & 1-30 expand a bit at that MV.

I think I  havea pot o' the soft stuff,'ill cast few up tonight to see how it goes.The 225438 is a 4 cavity so I can make a bunch pretty fast.

With tongue firmly in cheek, maybe you need to anchor them with a shoulder shot, and then finish them with a second round. :) Ala dangerous game!

I admit to taking two shots on more than one rodent to get the job done.

 

George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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KenK posted this 20 May 2008

linoww wrote: billwnr wrote: linoww wrote:

was shot at about 5 feet George

Dammit, man; was he going for jugular?

I got side tracked on Gunbroker today and looked at some nice English double rifles.  Perhaps this would be the medicine for charging rats?

 

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linoww posted this 20 May 2008

I got side tracked on Gunbroker today and looked at some nice English double rifles.

  I once saw a .410 Stevens built into a 22 Hornet side by side.I would love to have one built someday.I am in the family raising stage of life and have to decide on my splurges carefully.Ed Harris talked me into this Bunny Gun deal and I have an H&R 28ga small frame from the 1920's I am having a barrel built for .32 Mag.

 

Perhaps this would be the medicine for charging rats?

Someday that "double rat gun" will grace my gun cabinet.....

 

George

 

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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argie1891 posted this 22 May 2008

i shot a few last year with the same 225438 bullet cast from wheel weight metal and 4.5 gr. of unique in my 218 bee. it seemed to anchor them pretty well. they are too stupid to know when they are dead. if you leave them in the field they will eat their own dead. argie1891

if you think you have it figured out then you just dont understand

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linoww posted this 22 May 2008

argie1891 wrote: i shot a few last year with the same 225438 bullet cast from wheel weight metal and 4.5 gr. of unique in my 218 bee. it seemed to anchor them pretty well. they are too stupid to know when they are dead. if you leave them in the field they will eat their own dead. argie1891

I am sure 90% of my hits eventually killed the things,but too many made it back in their holes.I didnt have a chance to get out today but plan a re-shoot saturday AM with the high velocity loading.

George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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gussy posted this 23 May 2008

George, Since you got that nice mess of squirrels, I was wondering when you were going to post how you fixed them.  BBQ'd??  How do they taste, like grass fed beef or more like free range chicken??:shock:

:coffeeGus

 

Maybe a BBQ at the next match?

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billwnr posted this 23 May 2008

It's like corndogs...squirrel on a stick!

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linoww posted this 23 May 2008

George, Since you got that nice mess of squirrels, I was wondering when you were going to post how you fixed them.  BBQ'd?? 

You know I love to eat the Western Grey squirrel,but it is protected in Wa. state.I grew up in Northern Ca. and we ate those things fried(a little tuff) or in a stew with rabbit and whatever else we could get for the pot.

Having Italian blood in me makes me want to put them in red sauce and pour the mess over Polenta .Its the “standard" we do with doves,quail and other small game too small to mess with.Dad still wants me to harvest a nice youg Rock Chuck to try out.

I almost temped to eat one now that a challenge has been made<G> George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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billwnr posted this 23 May 2008

I ate squirrels and wood chuck (singular) back in PA.

I almost tried rockchuck once as I shot a young one.  It had too many crawly things on it when I started skinning so I quit.

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gussy posted this 23 May 2008

linoww wrote: You know I love to eat the Western Grey squirrel,but it is protected in Wa. state.I grew up in Northern Ca. and we ate those things fried(a little tuff) or in a stew with rabbit and whatever else we could get for the pot.

Having Italian blood in me makes me want to put them in red sauce and pour the mess over Polenta .Its the “standard" we do with doves,quail and other small game too small to mess with.Dad still wants me to harvest a nice youg Rock Chuck to try out.

I almost temped to eat one now that a challenge has been made<G> George

Sounds very familiar I grew up in Cal.  We spent more time after the greys than we did for deer.  I always carried a .22 pistol and dearly loved to get them.  And yes, stew over polenta with the doves. 

I lived in the midwest for 10 years and had both grey and the bigger reds to hunt.  I looked forward to hunting them as much as anything.  Some of the old ones were tough but the young ones really fried up nice.  I miss that around here.  If I lived in town I would probably be in trouble.  Reds running everywhere.;)

:coffeeGus

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gussy posted this 28 May 2008

George, You didn't leave a box of loads in the bushes did you?  A guy over on Cast Bullets found one in the Quincy/Wenatchee area.

:coffeeGus

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linoww posted this 28 May 2008

gussy wrote: George, You didn't leave a box of loads in the bushes did you?  A guy over on Cast Bullets found one in the Quincy/Wenatchee area.

:coffeeGus

No, but I did lose two cases in the weeds in Benton City last weekend.

There better not be anybody shooting .22 cast loads at varmints up in Quincy without telling me about it!!

 

George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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Dale53 posted this 30 March 2009

I have used the Lyman 225415 in my .221 Fireball TC Contender pistol and my Ruger #3 .221 Fireball with excellent results on tree squirrels. I use 4.0 grs of Unique (this shoots ½” groups at 50 yards). It kills considerably better than a .22 rimfire. I attribute this to the flat point.

If I were shooting Sage Rats I would try a slower burning powder (say H-110) and use a higher velocity load. Since I was hunting edible tree squirrels and was looking at shorter ranges, I chose the relatively slower velocity.

Dale53

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JeffinNZ posted this 30 March 2009

I agree Dale.  That wee FN is worth it's weight in gold.  Go the Lyman 225415.

Just finished sizing and lubing about 120 of them tonight and loading some over 7gr Green Dot in my .223 for 2000fps. 

Forgot how fiddly those little bullets are!  :D:D

Cheers from New Zealand

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AMMOe posted this 09 April 2009

I shoot a heat treated RCBS 22-055-FN from my .222 at 2700 fps. Prairiedogs don't like it!~AMMOe

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jhalcott posted this 13 April 2009

I used the foil trick some years ago in several calibers from 7mm to the 45-70. In works extremely well. Just pull the foil across the cavity to split the nose area. Fill the cavity and let cool. Trim the excess foil with a sharp knife,check,lube and load.WW alloy is about as hard as you need for this, harder alloys tend to break apart in side the critters. Often leaving multiple exits! I have even tried writing paper for this. Just keep the foil taut as you close the mold or it may bend or fold and you will have an unstable projectile.

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redball2 posted this 13 April 2009

these sage rats are different species of ground squirrels.they occour from mexico until the ultimate one in interior alaska.. the artic ground squirrel also known as a parka squirrel as it was used by the native interiour alaskans to make  parkas. it is the largest.  the ones in my area is the townsend ground  squirrel. the one in washington is slightly larger. they do cause lots of damage to crops at times. some have a trait of dissapearing when the weather get hot and will not reappear until next spring. for the local ones the proper rifle is limited to something that will hold a one inch group at what ever range you can shoot at as they are rather small. the populations do almost dissapear and then rebound until you can take a 22 rimfire target rifle and sit in one place and shoot a couple boxs of ammo without moving then next year you can't find one. they are great practice for a good 22 pistol.

sometimes called a picket pin.

Jim Wilcox

 

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.22-10-45 posted this 18 December 2010

Hello, Guy's, this is a fun read! I hav't yet tried any live critters with my Shillen barreled Borchardt Hornet, but I know it would dust them! I had Fred Leeth make up copys of the Ideal 22636 flat nose in plain-base & g.c. these are nose-pour. I am using 7.0gr. H4227 for best accuracy at 100yd. But can go higher without leading, right now I am averaging around 1/2 to 3/4” Once I was trying for velocity..groups started opening up & one happened to hit thumbtack on target..It looked like a lead bomb had gone off on that target face! Even tried paper-patching...shot nothing else for 21/2 shooting seasons..learned alot..had to get charges well up into jacketed bullet range before the things would shoot, & I was using fairly soft .001” over bore dia. bullets. Accuracy equalled best jacketed loads...but with fliers. I found out what those old time match shooters knew...if that patch doesn,t come off EXATLY the same instant on EVERY bullet, you will have a flier. Even tried Teflon tape..under 1/2” at 100 at jacketed velocity...BUT that tape is so thin, if you got a flier you had better stop now! & run patch thru..tiny piece of lead sliver you wouldn.t even sneeze at with “naked” bullet..next shot would tear patch & fill bore with lead. Thats why I wouldn,t use tape on hunting bullets. How about hollow-pointing bullets with a drill like the Forester product? Best of luck!

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Haretwigger posted this 19 December 2010

Send that 225415 or 225438 to Erik at Hollowpointmold.com and the varmints crawling back to their holes is over, it's DRT!!!

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DAMRON G posted this 19 December 2010

'Send that 225415 or 225438 to Erik at Hollowpointmold.com and the varmints crawling back to their holes is over, it's DRT!!!"

i did that shortly after my original post.I had one of the first .22's Erik did.it amazing what it does.

George

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Fg1 posted this 19 December 2010

George , which mould did you have hollow pointed ? I have both the roundnose and the flatpoint mould .

Wonder if the flatpoint would be better canidate ?

 

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DAMRON G posted this 20 December 2010

I had the 225462,225415 and 225438 all done.I now use an RCBS 55FN mold more than the others because its been double HP'ed and is really fast casting.All of them shot about 1.5” in my Stevens 200 22-250 @ 2100 fps in Linotype.Today i tried to shoot them fast in wheel weight and got 4” groups.Back to the hard stuff.

PS-The Modern Bond 311870 (150RN Plainbase) i got from you shot very well in my Mosin Nagant today.Thanks!

George

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Fg1 posted this 20 December 2010

Good to hear ! It worked really well for my Krag also , but I dont shoot it much any more.

May just send the little 22 flat point up to get revamped ! Spring is almost here :D

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w30wcf posted this 27 December 2010

Who remembers PACO's report in the Fouling Shot of at least 20 years ago about the killing power of a flat pointed 22 rimfire bullet?

He reported that it killed much quicker than even hollow pointed 22 lr's on jackrabbits, often dropping them in their tracks. In contrast, jackrabbits hit with the 22 lr hollow point would run 50 + yards before expiring.

I tested 22 LR cartridges that I flatpointed (5/32” flat) against the 22 lr hollow point and found that it made a bigger hole in a bar of soap.

At the lower velocity of the 22 lr, the flat point does outperform the 22 hollow point factory bullet in its game getting ability.

w30wcf

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JimmyDee posted this 27 December 2010

w30wcf wrote: At the lower velocity of the 22 lr, the flat point does outperform the 22 hollow point factory bullet in its game getting ability.

Paco sells a “Nasty Nose” tool that forms a shallow cup in ordinary 22 LR lead bullets.

It knocks 'em dead.

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Haretwigger posted this 27 December 2010

You can use the 415 top punch on the 225438 bullet and it will leave a nice flat point when sizing/lubing FWIW. This also works on the 225462 and the Lee 22 Bator as well. Does't cost anything to try, doesn't hurt accuracy wise either.

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