Mold for making solid stick lube

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CB posted this 01 January 2008

What does it take to make a mold for making solid stick lube? Can I make these from PVC or black iron?

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Thanks,

 

Jerry

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CB posted this 01 January 2008

Jerry You can use either.. I have some in PVC and some made from Aluminum tubing..

The only factor to consider is the heat when initially poured. I have had some PVC tube warp from the heat. My lube is at around 450 degrees F when I pure it into the moulds.

To make lube stick moulds you will need: A section of 2x4 (length varies with how many moulds you are going to make)

PVC tube caps (the number varies with how many moulds you are going to make)

Lengths of 1” PVC tubing (cut to how long you want your lube sticks to be)

Take the tube caps (try to get the flat ones, they are easier to use) Find something close to the center and drill a 3/16 hole through the caps.

Lay the caps out on the wide portion of the 2x4 (this will tell you how long to cut the 2x4) with enough spacing that you can wrap you handle around each tube.

Using a #6 drywall screw, screw the tube cap onto the 2x4.

Cut you 1” PVC tubing into the lengths you want.

and viola! Lube stick moulds.

If you want to have a hole in the center, take and drill a 3/8 hole in the center of the cap, and 2 3/16 holes to either side and then mount to the 2x4. After you have the cap mounted, continue drilling the 3/8 hole part way through the 2x4. This will help center the 3/8 dowel used to make the center hole. I use a 3/8 aluminum rod because the lube sticks to the wood like glue.

A couple of tips... Get a portion of 1” dowel rod to add in pushing the lube out of the tube once it sets up. Also you if you are making sticks with holes in the center, take and cut some 1/2” sections of the 1” dowel, drill a 3/8 hole in the center and place in the bottom of the mould and insert the 3/8 dowel.. Makes it easier to push those out of the mould without collapsing the hole in the stick of lube.

One final word of advice.. You will need to coat the inside surface with something to act as a release agent. Some use Murphy's oil soap, some use hairspray, some like me use commercial candle mould release and some use 3% food grade silicone spray.

There will be some shrinkage and the top end of the mould will have some air bubbles and vacancies. This is normal.

Try to pour the molten lube at a temperature just high enough to make it pourable.

I will try to get out into the shop tomorrow and get you some pics of my setup.

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CB posted this 01 January 2008

Jeff,

Thanks and pictures would be great!

Jerry

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CB posted this 02 January 2008

This is the first one I made, a bit crude, but it works. Contrary to what I told you to do, I bored holes in the 2x4. Not a bad idea till I found I had to turn down the PVC tubes because they just don't make spade bits the right size.

Below are the 1” PVC tubes, the Bored 2x4 and the little dowel pieces I place in the bottom of the tubes before pouring.

usrimages/stickmould.jpg

Here is the picture with the tubes inserted in the holes

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Note the holes in the small aluminum spacers, this is for when you want to make lube sticks that have the hole in the center. I use a 3/8 aluminum rod for this, one end is drilled and tapped 1/4-20 so you can use the little jig I made to pull the rod from the center.

usrimages/stickmould3.jpg

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And here is the jig to remove the center rod from the tube once it is cast with lube. You have to do this before you remove the lube stick from the PVC tube.

usr/images/rodremover1.jpgusrimages/rodremover1.jpg

usrimages/rodremover2.jpg

I also have a jig made to press the lube stick out of the mould.

usrimages/stickpress.jpg

usrimages/stickpress2.jpg

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CB posted this 02 January 2008

Thanks, pictures help a lot.

Jerry

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gussy posted this 03 January 2008

There is a large mould set up shown on the www.castingstuff.com web site. Go down the opening page to the “Lead Smelter and Lube Making” page. Several good photos and directions.

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CB posted this 03 January 2008

I would be interested in knowing what he use for a release agent to get the lube out of the tubes!

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gussy posted this 04 January 2008

Jeff Bowles wrote: I would be interested in knowing what he use for a release agent to get the lube out of the tubes!

Nothing.  :coffee

I only make BPCR lube.  It slides right out.  I remove it as soon as it is hard enough to come out in one piece and not bend or break.  It pushes out easily with just the red stick shown.

Gus

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CB posted this 04 January 2008

I have had issues getting my lube out of the tubes at times. Of course it is much different than BPCR lube. So you are able to pull the dowel rods right out of the lube huh?? Man I tryed that and really had a bad time. That is why I went to using the aluminum rods drilled and taped on one end so I can pull the rods out. I tried all sorts of stuff for the center rod. They do come apart easier in the winter than in the summer. The lube shrinks at a faster rate when it cools quickly.

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gussy posted this 04 January 2008

I noticed all the “extra equipment” and was thinking you were going to a lot of trouble to get yours out. Mine slides right out. Hardly any effort at all. Center dowels also.

You might try a quick dip in boiling water prior to pushing them out. Pam spray the tubes??

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gussy posted this 04 January 2008

A second thought, split the tubes on one side with a hacksaw and put hose clamps on them. Remove the clamp and the lube should be loose and just slide out.

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CB posted this 04 January 2008

Hummm.. That is a thought, splitting the tubes on one side.. The center rods arent too bad to get out with the jig, just a bit time consuming. I have tried pam, murphy's oil soap, 3% food grade silicone, hair spray, commercial candle mould release, car wax and a host of others. In order to get the lube I make to blend, it has to be pretty darn hot and has a remelt temp of at least 160 degrees f. Part of the reason I still make it in small batches, 8 sticks a batch. It is firm lube, but liquefies under pressure, enough to run through a Lyman 450 with out heating.

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CB posted this 04 January 2008

Jeff,

How tall are your mold tubes?

Jerry

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CB posted this 05 January 2008

Jeff,

Splitting the tubing is no big deal, I would use a wafer thin blade to slice the tubing. If I was to not split the tubing, I would either copy your ram type extractor or build a hydraulic one. I have a machine shop as a part of my regular work, so many things are possible.

Jerry

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CB posted this 05 January 2008

Jerry You area lucky devil to have a machine shop at your disposal! I made my tubes 6” long. 1/2” for the aluminum spacer at the bottom and an extra 1 1/2” allowance at the top for the shrinkage of the lube, 4” for the actual stick of lube. After I remove the center rod and the lube from the mould, I trim the lybe to 4", save the tops and chuck them back into the pot for the next batch. I havent used the press to remove the lube from the tube recently, with the colder weather the lube has been coming out easier. Of course I have stopped using the plastic tube and am now using anodized aluminum tubes and a push stick. If the lube sticks I just put a bit of heat via a heat gun to the tubes and that seems to work okay.

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CB posted this 05 January 2008

Jeff,

Where do you get the anodized aluminum tubing?

Thanks,

Jerry

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CB posted this 05 January 2008

Jeff,

This what I do: http://anvilsandinkstudios.com/

and here is where my shop stuff is: http://anvilsandinkstudios.com/studiopage1.html

Jerry

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CB posted this 05 January 2008

I have been getting that anodized tubing from a great little hardware shop near me, I think it is about 12.00 for a 8ft. piece.

Then I just cut it up into 6” pieces on the band saw. You end up with one tube that will be a bit short due to the kerf width of the saw blade. Just chamfer the ends inside and out and there you have it.

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CB posted this 05 January 2008

That is a nice shop Jerry! You do some very nice work. If I get down to your neck of the woods I will have to plan time to stop by and visit!

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CB posted this 05 January 2008

Jeff,

Thanks, any time your in my area just stop on in.

Back to the lube molds, I was thinking of 1” galvanized conduit for the tubes. 10' is about $27.00

Any thoughts on this?

Jerry

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CB posted this 05 January 2008

Jeff,

Do you have the brand name of the aluminum tubing, or the name of the hardware store?

Thanks,

Jerry

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CB posted this 05 January 2008

Gheezh, I can't remember the name of the Aluminum tubing brand, but I got it at a place called Grand Hardware in Southgate, MI. I will be stopping by there this next week and I will check for you.

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CB posted this 05 January 2008

Jeff,

Thanks,

Jerry

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CB posted this 05 January 2008

Running a cut along one side with a wafer thin saw blade seems to work, I have those diamond coated metal cutting 10 incg circular saw blades. I made one, clapped it with 2 hose clamps and haven't cast any lube in it yet, but depending on tomorrows weather, I may try it out.

Jerry

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CB posted this 05 January 2008

I look forward to hearing how that turns out!

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CB posted this 06 January 2008

Jeff,

After I get home tomorrow from teaching, I work with gifted middle school students, I will have my mold built. Then I will take pictures and post them for every one.

The hose clamp ideas works, but you need to use more than one. I made up one tube, 14 inches long or three sticks plus shrinkage in length, melted some paraffin and poured it in the tube. This was set outside to cool, it was about 50 degrees today, and then released the clamps, with a 1 inch dowel I pushed the paraffin out.

So now I am building one with 5 mold tubes.

 

Jerry

 

 

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CB posted this 06 January 2008

Thats good news Jerry! Can't wait for the pictures.

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CB posted this 08 January 2008

Jeff and everyone,

I had to go to a Federal Meeting this evening dealing with the REX Pipeline company. Who is coming to my area. This was a no holds barred situation to talk against the pipeline company that has misrepresented things to us regularly.

Tomorrow I will be home all day and making the mold with the rack for it. I did have time to pick up some extra hose clamps today.

Pictures will be taken and posted.

Jerry

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CB posted this 08 January 2008

I spent the morning making the mold and rack,

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CB posted this 09 January 2008

Now I am looking for some 1 inch aluminum tubing to see if that will work easier that the PVC tubing for this project.

Jerry

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gussy posted this 09 January 2008

Looks good. Never thought about a long tube.

Tubes that long out of aluminum may cool to fast and leave voids. Gus

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CB posted this 09 January 2008

If necessary, I can cool these tubes down with old CO2 fire extinguishers, that I pickup. They are out of date and can't be serviced, but they are full. I thought about during the summer using them to chill can's beverages like they show in some movies, but these could also cool down the molds.

That is just a thought, I am looking for 1 inch metal tubing and my local Mom and Pops hardware is searching for this stuff upon my request.

Today I am home feeling like I got the cold that is going around.

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gussy posted this 09 January 2008

Didn't mean the cooling would cause a void. I meant the cool tube might set up the lube as it is poured in thus not filling the tube.

Why the need for aluminum? Plastic has served me well for a number of pours and shows no sign of problems. It doesn't have any thermal problems that metal has. Cheap too.

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CB posted this 09 January 2008

I just want to try different tubing, and methods.

Jerry

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CB posted this 09 January 2008

For the synthetic lube I make for competitive shooting, I found that the aluminum tubes work better due to the high temp you have to bring the lube up to to get the ingregients to meld.

I have warped some of my pvc plastic moulds making it hard to get the sticks out.

I am going to try the slotting technique Jerry has done, that may be well worth the effort.

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CB posted this 09 January 2008

Jeff,

What is your recipe for your competition lube?

Make real sure you have tighten the tubes before pouring into them. The slightest gap will leak.

Thanks,

Jerry

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gussy posted this 09 January 2008

Might try CPVC, the hot water type plastic. Costs a bit more but still easy to work with. The thicker walls of plastic might be easier to keep together when using the split tube and clamp system.

Will your lube separate if you let it cool a bit after mixing but before pouring?? Might lessen the problems.

It's possible that the heat expands the tubes and they tighten on the lube when they cool. My lube is barely 200 degrees, probably less.

Just throwing out some thoughts;)

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CB posted this 09 January 2008

Gussy,

I am going to do a full run of lube this weekend to check all of the tubes and see if this method is sound. The CPVC is a good idea if I can find 1 inch at my Mom and Pops hardware store.

Thanks for the thoughts,

Jerry

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CB posted this 09 January 2008

Jerry Dont take this the wrong way, but I can't give out that formula. I made a promise to the friend that gave me the base formula.

He and I are in a sudo business making it. It's called Voodoo Lube.

If you need some help working on a formula, I would be glad to point you in the right direction. I have been making lube for quite a while on and off. I have some info on what causes what to happen and where to get the components to make it.

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CB posted this 10 January 2008

Jeff,

Thats not a problem, I do need some help formulating a high speed lube for target shooting.

Jerry

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CB posted this 10 January 2008

I found at my local Mom and Pops Hardware store 1 inch EMT conduit for %8.99 a length.

Jerry

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CB posted this 10 January 2008

That should do the job... Tom Gray used that when he made his lube Grays #24.. I dont know about splitting it and using hose clamps. Let me know how it works for you

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CB posted this 11 January 2008

I tried the split tubes this evening with a 1 part beeswax, one past parafin and 1/2 of STP. Don't try this without adult supervision, the split leaks until it cools enough to become to start geling up. Tomorrow I will try the 1 inch EMT molds, I spent an hout scraping the lube off the work bench and the floor.

Jerry

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CB posted this 11 January 2008

They have this stuff I call mould seal you can get it from several candle shops online, it is like a strip of thick sticky tape. You could use that to seal up the seam. I get mine from a place called Candlewick online.

Better than scrapping all of that wax up off of the floor!

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CB posted this 11 January 2008

Jeff,

Thnaks, I will look them up, but I am setup the 1 EMT conduit to use as molds. Probably this weekend. I am using electrical box entry fittings with a washer inside to plug the opening on the bottom of the fitting.

Jerry

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gussy posted this 11 January 2008

I would still consider lowering the temp in the melt pot before pouring. As I said mine is below 200. If you don't get separation, I think it would lessen the problems.

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CB posted this 11 January 2008

I will give that a try when I further work on the PVC molds.

Jerry

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CB posted this 11 January 2008

I have to make lube this weekend and I too will adjust the pouring temp.. Don't know why I didn't think of that before, must be the virtues of getting older.

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CB posted this 14 January 2008

I lowered the temp and didn't have any leakage problems, but used friction tape as my mold seal.

Today and tomorrow I will work on my mold made from 1 inch EMT conduit. When it's done I will post pictures.

Jerry

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gussy posted this 14 January 2008

You might also try one without the split to see if the lower temp makes removal easy. Vary the fill depth if using long tubes until it get hard to get out. Splitting the tube may not be needed.

A thought on metal tubes: There is always a seam rib inside. This may make removal harder. Split on that seam.

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CB posted this 14 January 2008

Here is the mold using the EMT 1 Inch Tubing.

 

I may try the lower temp, with the PVC, but I also want to hear about Jeff doing some in his mold.

 

On the workmate is the pieces parts for the ram to extract the lube.

 

Jerry

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CB posted this 14 January 2008

I will be traveling to Phoenix this Thursday, I didnt get the chance yet to make lube and may not before I leave. I will still be around here via the laptop. We may have to wait for the results.

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CB posted this 17 January 2008

I had a thought, when the mold and lube cool down to room temperature, why not stick then in the freezer a while. The stick of lube should shrink away from the mold.

Just a thought, I have to pick up my double boiler today at Wally World and then next week see about starting production of my lubes.

Jerry

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gussy posted this 17 January 2008

Actually I would think freezing would be quite the opposite. The metal would shrink and the lube, containing water would swell.

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CB posted this 17 January 2008

Gussy,

I have been many debates about freezing tubes. The thickness of the tube shrinks as well as the over all diameter, so for most purposes the tube will not be the problem.

What would the water be in, I can't see any real quantity of water in the lube.

Jerry

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gussy posted this 17 January 2008

I use lanolin in my lube and it contains some water. I think the bees wax contains a small amount.

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CB posted this 17 January 2008

Gussy,

Thanks for the info, now I may put a block of beeswax in the freezer to check for expansion. I haven't bought any lanolin yet, how well does it work for you? Did you know you can get anhydrous lanolin?

Thanks,

Jerry

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CB posted this 17 January 2008

If you are cooking the lube correctly 99.9% of the water will vaporize.

I would'nt be concerned about water.

I have place the PVC tube in the freezer and the lube does shrink away from the sides of the tube, however the center rod is much harder to remove.

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CB posted this 17 January 2008

Jeff,

Thats why I use a Star Sizer, no hole.

Jerry

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CB posted this 17 January 2008

Ahh!! I see..

I havent got one of those.....Yet.

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CB posted this 17 January 2008

They work very well and very fast. A friend of mine even has his setup with pneumatics so you put the bullet in, hit the actuator, it pushes the bullet through and it drops into the finished box. No up and down motion.

Well worth the bucks!

Jerry

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CB posted this 18 January 2008

I think my first batch will be the following fornula:

2 Lb Beeswax

2 Lb Johnson's Paste Wax (Carnuba and Paraffin)

1 bottle of STP

 

Steric acid if needed for hardening or Ivory Soap.

Then after that

1 Lb Beeswax

1/2 Lb Paraffin

1/2 Lb Safflower Oil

 4 ounces STP

Of course steric acid of Ivory soap to harden

 

These will be cast in solid sticks for my Star Sizer.

Jerry

 

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CB posted this 24 January 2008

Today, I finally had time to cast the bullet lube. I did 3 solid PVC tubes, 3 1nch EMT tubes. Try the split tubes, but the base is not tight with the end cap. So next time I will put friction tape around the base.

I did keep the temp to 160, the splits didn't leak. If I can find a place to post the pictures, I will.

Jerry

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CB posted this 24 January 2008

Getting this out of the molds was a little primitive, I put a one inch dowel in the mold and hammer the dowel on the concrete floor. The lube came out with a few whacks. The EMT molds worked better than the solid PVC tubes. Next I will try the split tubes with some tape at the base of the tube where it meets the cap.

I will try changing things until I get something to work easily.

Jerry

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gussy posted this 24 January 2008

Shorter tubes work easily!!

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CB posted this 24 January 2008

Gussy,

I am finding that out, but I may rework the split tubes. The EMT Conduit, I will probably shorten to 6 or 7 inches.

Jerry

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CB posted this 02 February 2008

To Get the lube out of the short tubes, I took a 1” inch wooden dowel, inserted it in the mold and taped twice and the lube popped out. The split tube molds, require that I took the tape off, insert a 1” dowel and taped three times and it cleared the mold.

:}

Jerry

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CB posted this 07 February 2008

I made 4 1/2 inch mold tubes. The current formula that I am making doesn't have much shrinkage, maybe a 1/4 inch. The lube works really great with many thanks from Jeff for his advise.

 

I have an idea on how to make hollow sticks with out the rod sticking up from the bottom of the tube. I will post pictures when I get that figured out.

 

Now what do you guys wrap you lube up in or do you just them in Zip Lock bags?

 

Many thanks,

 

Jerry

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CB posted this 25 February 2008

As that mostyly use my Star Sizer for bullet lubing, but I do have an RCBS Lubematic, I thought that I could come up with a way to make hollow stick lube. So I did a rough drawing of what I think may work.

Jerry

 

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CB posted this 25 February 2008

Give it a try Jerry, why not. If it works you will have a cheap fix to your problem, if not, then we will all know that isnt practical.

Maybe some of that miracle grease will keep it from sticking??

If you try this let us know how it turns out!

Jeff

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CB posted this 25 February 2008

Jeff,

 

I was going to get the stuff this week and try it out.

 

Thanks,

Jerry

 

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CB posted this 26 February 2008

This idea does work and well, so I can make hollow and solid sticks using the same basic mold.

 

Jerry

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CB posted this 26 February 2008

Thats Great Jerry! Atta Boy!!! :wavw2:

This is part of the experimentation and innovation I like to see! Our sport wouldn't be able to move forward with out it!

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LoLo25643 posted this 15 April 2008

This has been a good topic and one that I've enjoyed reading. Here's an old pic of the setup that I've used for several years now with good results.

http://www.knology.net/~lolo/lube.jpg>http://www.knology.net/~lolo/lube.jpg

I made the base out of a scrap piece of UHMW plastic left over from work and the tubes were made from 1” EMT conduit. Then I used a 1-1/8” hole saw to cut a round groove about 3/16” deep and finished cutting it with a piece of the conduit with teeth filed in one end to dress up groove to fit the conduit. The center pins are 3/8” stainless rod pressed into an 11/32” hole for a tight fit. I've played around with several lubes but mostly use a fairly soft 50/50 mixture of beeswax and shortning for blackpowder shooting. After pouring the tubes full I sit the whole thing in the freezer for a couple of minutes and pull the tubes up off of the pins. Then I push the lube stick out with a 1” piece of cold rolled steel. The bottom is recessed in 3/16” so it gives me a good start. This softer lube ejects from the mould fairly easy but some of the harder ones stuck pretty good. The quickest and easiest method that I found to eject them was to use my wifes hair dryer to heat the outside of the EMT just a bit before pushing the stick out. The EMT is thin enough to heat pretty quick and let go of the stick. I usually just wrap the lube sticks up with old cut up Walmart bags or put them in a ziplock sandwitch bag.

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CB posted this 15 April 2008

LoLo,

 

Many thanks, you have given me some ideas. :dude:

 

Jerry

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Recluse posted this 08 June 2009

Jeff Bowles wrote: I would be interested in knowing what he use for a release agent to get the lube out of the tubes!

Nothing like being a year and a half late on a reply. . .:idea1:

I use the silicone spray I get from auto parts stores as a mould release agent (for lube moulds ONLY). But I also use the silicone spray for my reloading presses and lubesizers--good lube, and not real messy.

I soak a paper towel with the silicone spray, then wipe the center rods with it, spray a little more on the soaked paper towel, then run it through the PVC moulds.

After I pour the lube in the moulds, I let it sit and firm up, then place it in the standup deep freeze. If it's cool/cold outside (not real often--this IS Texas), I'll sit it outside. If it's hot (real often--this IS Texas), I'll sit the cooling moulds on a shelf I have in front of the air conditioner in my shop.

Once cold, the mould and rods push out real easily.

I color code my lubes based on ingredients/uses when I'm melting the ingredients. Once cooled and removed from the moulds, I wrap them in wax paper then store them in tupperware type containers I get at the dollar store.

:coffee:

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burnout777 posted this 01 November 2009

I also made a lube mold bracket.  I used 1'' x 4'' galvenized steel pipe and I used the caps to prevet the leakage problem I had too.  I put the molds in the freezer when they can be moved to speed things up a bit.  I make a hard lube.  As far as the relase agent ... I found that using a heat gun for 10 - 15 seconds wile holding the molds with a channel lock loosens up the lube to be pushed out easily with a wooden dowel.

 

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leo 367 posted this 09 November 2009

I pour the hot lube into the lyman 450 Leo367

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CB posted this 09 November 2009

That mold looks familiar. ;}

 

Jerry

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burnout777 posted this 09 November 2009

I've got many good ideas from Jerry and the others :lovecast:

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CB posted this 09 November 2009

Good, now make us proud and create your own lube.

Jerry

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gunarea posted this 28 December 2014

lube mould, my version

Hey Folks The method I use is a copy of what my mentor, Mr. George Forest, came up with some eighty years ago. Modern products have been employed to replace some of the parts, but the idea is identical. Mr. Forest made his tube moulds from steel pipe and originaly the stem void was done with arrow shafts, later he got steel rods. As a teenager I was tasked with stripping moulds and cleanup. After years of apprenticeship, everything except “brewing” fell into my skill repatriore. A batch of “Best Lube” generally produced around 160 sticks of the hollow core type. Making the solid sticks was even simpler but yeilded fewer sticks of course. This stickie is about lube forms, so I won't stray except to note “Best Lube” does not need lubricant on anything to release cleanly from any of the mould parts. My particular mould system is much smaller than that of Mr. Forest since I do not produce commercialy. You can easily modify this method to suit your needs. The two men in the pictures are students making lube using my mould system. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108953&d=1403867772>http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108958&d=1403871048>http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108957&d=1403870105>http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108957&d=1403870105&thumb=1 A hole saw will cut a groove to accept the pipe form and give a positively centered pilot hole for stick. Depth of cut is not critical but should be 3/8” to 1/2". 1” PVC pipe cut to lenght must have a bevel ground on one end to fit snugly into the hole saw groove. For a 3/8” dowel, drill a 5/16” hole through the hole saw pilot hole. A pencil sharpener will quickly taper one end of the dowel to fit snugly into the center hole. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108954&d=1403868192>http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108954&d=1403614417&thumb=1 This batching/mould system has been used many times so I am quite sure of the validity of the information I am passing to you. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108956&d=1403869388>http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108956&d=1403869388&thumb=1 Stripping of the forms is also very simple. After pouring all warm lube into moulds, allow ample time for cooling.http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108959&d=1403871677>http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108959&d=1403871677&thumb=1 Gang moulds take longer for interior moulds to cool properly. A simple push stick and a little practice makes stripping quick and easy. Technique tip; holding the PVC form, put two fingers on the top with the dowel between them. First part of the push will free up the dowel. Then grip the PVC form fully and push the stick out.http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108955&d=1403868675>http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108955&d=1403694907&thumb=1 Here is my neanderthal rendering of a push out. The PVC Tee became needed as my arthritis progresses. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108789&d=1403695356>http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108789&d=1403616255&thumb=1 This is my offering to those who would appreciate it. I don't say it is THE way to do it, only that it is A way to do it. Couple tips of mine is wrap sticks in aluminum foil, get someone else to do it and never offer to sell it. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108790&d=1403697083>http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108790&d=1403617107&thumb=1 My hope is this information will help someone. Roy

Shoot often, Shoot well

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