Who Shoots, Casts and Loads for the .455 Revolver?

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  • Last Post 22 January 2017
Ed Harris posted this 20 October 2016

I became the custodian of a Webley Mark VI .455 revolver made during WW1 and refurbished for WW2 service.  Its former owner's father was an RCAF pilot and the revolver saw very little use and is in near-pristine condition. He gave me a bunch of ammunition, some 1942-era Kynoch service loads, and handloads in Hornady Mk.2 cases with 265-grain Mark 1 style bullets and 4.5 grains of Unique, and others with Ideal #452374 bullets in Fiocchi cases with 5 grains of Unique. Barrel slugs .440 bore and .450 groove, with narrow lands and 7-groove rifling. Cylinder throats are all different, the smallest being .449 and the largest .453 and the others in between covering all of the possibilities. Cylinder gap is a generous 0.018"!!   My plan is to shoot the gun as-is to get baseline data, and to generate empty brass for experiments.  Then I'll send the cylinder off to DougGuy in North Carolina for him to uniform all of the chamber throats to .453” on his Sunnen hone, then to shoot it again. There are no plans for heavy loads in this, but only to work up charges which approximate the velocity of service ammo with Accurate 45-245D, which I use in the .45 Auto Rim. Obligatory Eye Candy is attached.  If you have one of these neat old guns, what do you shoot in yours?

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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45 2.1 posted this 20 October 2016

Nice condition Ed............please do not alter it by honing the cylinder throats. There are very few left in that condition. The dimensions given do not hurt accuracy provided you shoot a hollow base slug.... either the RCBS 265 gr. HB or the MP copy of it. I alter 45 Colt brass to Mk1 specs to load mine to original ballistics and have shot them from Colt, S&W and Webley handguns with excellent accuracy. Enjoy!

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Ed Harris posted this 20 October 2016

Unfortunately I consider 0.004” variation in cylinder throats entirely unacceptable from an engineering standpoint.  Unless by some miracle the gun shoots One Inch Per Ten (yards), it is probably going to get honed.   Let the collectors cry after I'm gone. Don't care. Only accurate revolvers are worth keeping and if they need a little help, so be it.

I've never seen a collector disassemble a revolver and pin cylinder throats to whine when a gun was skillfully tweaked without affecting its appearance or replacing original parts.99-44/100% would never even check and the remainder probably wouldn't understand if you explained what you did to them. It isn't going to be a safe queen...

I have no sentimental attraction for the original Mark 1 hollow-based bullet, having owned the Ideal mold and frustrated myself with it and one of the modern MiHec 4-cavity ones. I was unable to get acceptable grouping which would even meet standards for ordinary .45 ACP Ball ammunition during the WW2 era.  Bullet design has improved alot since 1887. The original Webley bullet is NOT one of the better examples of its period.  The 1887 service bullet for the Schofield was very much like Saeco #954 and is MUCH more accurate.  Please understand that I did give the MiHec mold extensive accuracy trials with black powder and with smokeless in .45 Schofield brass firing in the Colt New Service M1909 and Ruger Vaquero as well as in .45 Auto Rim brass in S&W .45 Hand Ejector. Grouping at 20 yards was not as good as modern Saeco and Accurate design bullets would do from the same guns at 50 yards!  Wheelweights, 1:20, 1:30, 1:40 made no difference.  Groups were not even “ordinary." I found accuracy results with the Mk.1 bullet inferior throughout, so  I sold the mold with no regrets. Today's modern designs by Tom Ellis at5 Accurate are far superior to the old turn of the 20th Century designs and his lathe-bored molds much better than the old style cherry cut ones from Lyman, RCBS, Saeco or H&G. I have his 45-245D which is well suited for the short Mark 2 cases now available, but I also have 45-240H1 ordered, which is a modern design for the .455.  There is a 272-grain version having the same nose length and shape which differs only in overall length, width of base band and lube groove.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Ed Harris posted this 20 October 2016

Here is the drawing of Tom's 272-grain modern Webley bullet. Nose tolerance is negative, driving band tolerance is positive. When ordering you can specify diameter to fit your revolver and alloy of choice.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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M3 Mitch posted this 20 October 2016

FWIW, although I am as much a collector as a shooter, I don't see honing the cylinder throats to a uniform diameter as any sort of “desecration” - the desecration was done at the factory, by the knucklehead who did such a poor job on the cylinder, and even more damnation needs to be heaped on the QA inspector who let it get out the door like that. (My day job is QA so I guess I'm entitled to say that).

Too bad you can't tighten up the cylinder gap, but unless there is a trick I don't know about, it appears you can't take the barrel off and set it into the frame one more turn like you could with say a SAA. So I guess you are stuck with the big gap, short of extreme modifications.

All that said, maybe it will shoot well enough as-is to be worth leaving as-is.

I don't have a Webley, but, I would think (mastering the obvious, I know) that whatever works for a .45 Auto Rim, ought to be OK here too, perhaps with a lower maximum pressure. At least as a starting point.

You have mentioned before that Unique seems hard to come by in your neck of the woods, but it has always been my “go-to” powder for oddball handgun rounds. It just always seems to give decent accuracy with any listed load, more so than similar flake powders like Red Dot, Green Dot, 700X, etc. Although a light load of Bullseye ought to work well, given similarity to .45 AR.

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Ed Harris posted this 20 October 2016

My plan is to fire graduated charge establishment with Bullseye using the RCBS Little Dandy rotors until I match the velocities of WW2 service ammo (if it will still go off) or the Unique handloads which came with the gun, if they don't seem excessive.

My gut instinct, based on 10% reduction from .45 Auto Rim data (to compensate for the shorter case) is that 3.0-3.2 of Bullseye will be about right with the Accurate 455-272H, 3.5 with the Accurate 45-245D and 45-259H and 4.0 with lighter 230-grainers, if needed to shoot to the sights. Left Accurate 45-245D in Hornady Mark II caseRight Accurate 45-259H in Mark I case modified from .45 Schofield by Reed's Custom Ammo.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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RicinYakima posted this 21 October 2016

Ed, You are reading my mind. My loads for the Lyman #457196 (290 grain) are 3.2 grains of Bullseye, 4.0 grains of SR7625 and 4.5 grains of Unique. These all deliver 600 f/s from the Dominion .455 Colt brass that I use. I don't know what they would do in modern brass, or with solid base bullets. I kept the hollow base bullet because it was the only thing that would shoot in my S&W with .459” cylinder throats. Yes, I had to use the Brownell tool to ream the throats to .452 as they varied from .448 to .451". My brother is playing “Zulu” re-enactor with it right now, but will have it back by spring. Ric

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RicinYakima posted this 21 October 2016

My two .455's.

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Ed Harris posted this 21 October 2016

Ric, when I get the new molds, if you guys out there would like to do a reprise of the .38 S&W / .380-200 tests in .455 for The Fouling Shot I would be pleased to send samples!

The 272-grain mold is coming first, because I want to do some long range 100-200 yard rifle shooting in .45 Colt also, to compare with the 290-grain version I already have and the 45-259EB black powder .45 Colt bullet.

If the Mark VI is sighted for lighter bullets I may get the 45-240H or order something in between about 250-260 grains weight with short shank and maintaining the .405” long nose for use in the Webley and in Schofield brass in the .45 Colt.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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giorgio de galleani posted this 21 October 2016

I am like a 6 years old child waiting for Santa Claus. Want to read  more posts on your work.I adore 45 ACP or Autorim revolvers. ( a 625  S$W)  I used to have a Wbley and a pair of SA italian clones in the  with the  ACP cylinder .Fabulous I regret having been compelled to sell them. I had three Ruger single action revolvers in 45 long colt , Very  good pieces , but  too stout kicking .for me .If I want  a powerful revolver the  S&W 629 44 Mag with Pachmayr grips as it hurts less in my hand.The correct shape of the grip in the shooters hand is paramount , like wearing the right hiking boots .  

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M3 Mitch posted this 21 October 2016

More for any young guys who might read this than for people participating in the thread, who probably already know this - that WWII ammo is very likely corrosive primed, right?

I think that US GI WWII ammo was corrosive primed.

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RicinYakima posted this 21 October 2016

Everything but M1 Carbine. Nothing soap and water will not cure.

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Ed Harris posted this 21 October 2016

There is French and Chinese .30 M1 carbine ammo out there which is corrosive. The Chinese stuff had an LC43 headstamp, but with twin Berdan flash holes!

The Webley revolver is easy to clean, as you can remove the cylinder to disassemble it, then hot water clean oil and reassemble, and the barrel can be cleaned from the breach. Boiling water, Royal Navy seawater soap followed by Holland & Holland's Rangoon Oil was the preferred method, but I use Ed's Red. http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/answers/what-was-rangoon-gun-oil-19430>http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/answers/what-was-rangoon-gun-oil-19430 http://oldtimeangler.tripod.com/index/guncleaning.htm>http://oldtimeangler.tripod.com/index/guncleaning.htm

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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M3 Mitch posted this 21 October 2016

RicinYakima wrote: Everything but M1 Carbine. Nothing soap and water will not cure. True, but I wanted to bring this (that WWII era GI ammo is frequently corrosive-primed) up for the benefit of any younger readers who might not know about this.  Any sort of water-based cleaner will take out the salts, but a guy needs to know that he needs to do this.

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RicinYakima posted this 22 October 2016

M3, You are right. I always just assume that any military ammo is corrosive, as much was made into the 1960's and even later.

Ed, Glad to help you test those bullets. Have to check to see if we have an N frame Ranson rest block.

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RicinYakima posted this 22 October 2016

Ed, The three old guys await you pleasure. Do you have a size case you want us to use? Ric

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Ed Harris posted this 22 October 2016

Most of the brass I have is recent production Hornady Mark II, which is the shorter case with large primer. I have one box of once-fired Fiocchi Mark II with small primer pocket.

Would be nice to get some comparison with CIL .455 Eley or other make of .455 in the longer Mark I case if anybody has any, but for the purpose of load development I'll stick to the Hornady brass as being most common, unless Starline decides to make it.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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RicinYakima posted this 22 October 2016

I have the CIL “Dominium” cases and about 25 Hornady case, if those are good. They are both large pistol size, I believe.

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Ed Harris posted this 22 October 2016

Hornadys are the short Mark II case and CILs are the long ones. It would be good to have some velocity and accuracy tests in the long cases vs. short ones. I have 500 of the Hornady cases, so have those covered, but I have none of the long ones. Reed's Custom Ammo offers cut down and rim turned .45 Colt cases for $30 for 50, so I may get some of those to test.

I see you have two revolvers, does Joe Gifford or any of the others guys out there want to play?  Would be nice to find somebody with a Colt New Service so that we have all the bases covered.  Need to plan on how many bullets to cast and pack for you.  Bullets from the Accurate molds won't drop large enough for the S&W as they all are .452-.454 depending on design.45-245D does run .454-.455 depending on alloy.

I'll shoot up the 265-grain HB and 230 LRN ammo which came with the gun, and the little bit of MkVIz K42 ball I have to get empties.  

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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RicinYakima posted this 23 October 2016

That is why I kept the HB mould, they work in everything. I may try expanding them in a .458 or .459 sizing die.

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JeffinNZ posted this 23 October 2016

ED: Is there anything you can do when loading the ammo to account for the generous cylinder gap? Does powder speed make a difference. That's an awful lot of nothing between cylinder and barrel. More like porting!

Cheers from New Zealand

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Ed Harris posted this 23 October 2016

JeffinNZ wrote: ED: Is there anything you can do when loading the ammo to account for the generous cylinder gap? Does powder speed make a difference. That's an awful lot of nothing between cylinder and barrel. More like porting! Great question.  Honest answer is that I don't know, and that will be the objective of firing experiments.  Gun shot well with Unique handloads which came with it, but I haven't chronographed them yet.

My best guess is that a fast burning powder like Bullseye may tolerate the gap better, and that will be the first series of tests.

But considering how well Alliant #2400 worked in the .38 S&W I will cautiously try some with 245 and 272-grain bullets in the .455!  

In the .45 Colt a charge of 15.4 grains with the lead 255-grain hollow-based conical factory bullet does not exceed SAAMI pressure and gives normal velocity.  Given the much smaller capacity of the .455 Mk.II case I've assembled a few test rounds with 45-245D with 7 grains, which is about 80% of case capacity.  I used 6.3 grains very successfully in the .380 Rimmed with 36-178D and got very good results with normal velocity and no excessive pressure signs, so I'm confident that the 7 grain charge is not excessive for the .455, I just don't know if the powder will light off and actually drive the bullet clear of the barrel!  

That's what lead hammers and brass knock-out rods are for, so stay tuned!

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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JeffinNZ posted this 23 October 2016

I was thinking along the Bullseye line also. I wondered if a fast kick in the seat might help.

Cheers from New Zealand

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tturner53 posted this 24 October 2016

That's a beauty for sure. Ed gets a lot of cool stuff! The Webley reminds me of old movies like “Lawrence of Arabia” or “The Wind and the Lion".

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Ed Harris posted this 24 October 2016

Sadly, too many old soldiers are down sizing and moving into assisted living, and passing on with no relatives who appreciate the guns and goodies which they acquired. I pay the family or estate top dollar based on an independent appraisal and both parties are happy.

I feel a duty to do right and to ward off the circling vultures who want to grab them cheap for resale.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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johniv posted this 28 October 2016

Interesting topic. I have never measured the cyl. of my Webley, but the gap is .015” if memory serves. It has always shot well with Lyman #452400 sized to .452". I'm looking forward to learning more. FWIW I believe I have some CIL cases that are the MK2 (short) and some are the MK1 (long) John

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Dale53 posted this 28 October 2016

The latest issue of the Handloader has an interesting article on the .455 with it's complexity of naming conventions, different case, lengths, etc.

I would be willing to share that with anyone who is interested...

Just send me a P.M. with your email address and I can send by attachment or, maybe I can utilize Drop Box (share a link to take you to a copy of the article).

FWIW Dale53

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M3 Mitch posted this 02 November 2016

<user=207>Ed Harris wrote: “Sadly, too many old soldiers are down sizing and moving into assisted living, and passing on with no relatives who appreciate the guns and goodies which they acquired. I pay the family or estate top dollar based on an independent appraisal and both parties are happy. I feel a duty to do right and to ward off the circling vultures who want to grab them cheap for resale."

 

That's a great attitude!  I'm going to use this line with my wife, next time she asks why I want to buy a gun when I already have more than 50...

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JeffinNZ posted this 05 November 2016

Any progress Ed? I am keen to know if the powder burn rate mattered.

Cheers from New Zealand

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Ed Harris posted this 05 November 2016

Fired some of the Unique loaded rounds which came with the revolver. Shooits to the sights, accurate enough, but lots of unburned powder. Did not chronograph, but at least now have 100 Hornady Mk.II cases to load for comparisons with the longer Mk.I made from cut-down Schofield brass.

Plan is to load several bullet weights with 3.5 grains of Bullseye for chronograph trials and then do all side-by-side non same day.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Ed Harris posted this 19 November 2016

Update, velocity data from cylinder as originally received with irregular throat diameters:

Table 1 - .455 Velocity Test Data ________Velocity (fps), Sd __Kirst Ctg. Conversion”Rook Rifle” _________Webley Mk VI 6” Bbl._Ruger ROA 7-1/2”H&R 20” ________Cylinder gap 0.018”__Cylinder gap 0.004”__Solid Bbl.

Kynoch K42 Mk VIz 265-grain FMJ537 fps, 29 Sd___580 fps, 32 Sd_680 fps, 40 Sd

Handloads Assembled in Hornady .455 Mk II cases (0.77”) with Winchester LP primers

452374 225-gr. LRN 5.0 Unique_648 fps, 24 Sd___716 fps, 11 Sd_814 fps, 14 Sd

MiHec 265-gr. Mk I 4.5 Unique_538 fps, 24 Sd__679 fps, 32 Sd__788 fps, 11 Sd

Accurate 45-259H 3.5 Bullseye_622 fps, 6 Sd__720 fps. 16 Sd_813 fps, 18 Sd

Handload in Starline .45 Schofield Case modified to .455 Mk I (0.87”) by Reed's Custom Ammo Accurate 45-259H 3.5 Bullseye_546 fps, 16 Sd__641 fps, 9 Sd___753 fps, 11 Sd

Column Means By Gun___Webley 0.018” gap_Ruger 0.004” gap20-inch rifle Pooled Avg. All Samples:__578 fps____667 fps____770 fps

Velocity Gain from Webley__0_____+89 fps___+192 fps

Here are 12 shots fired off sandbags at 100 yards, using the full front sight as hold-over, firing the MiHec 265-grain RNHB bullets with 4.5 grains of Unique.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Ed Harris posted this 19 November 2016

And here is what the cylinder looked like inside, after Doug Phillips cleaned the years of accumulated leading and compacted carbon fouling out.  You can see a slight area where he initially reamed until all six charge holes would accept a .4520 gage pin all the way through. As you can see there is severe pitting which was hidden under all the leading in the undersized throats.  Picture below shows better the area cleaned up so far after the initial pass using the Sunnen hone.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Ed Harris posted this 19 November 2016

And here is what the in-process cylinder looks like after initial reaming to .4525 and polish with the Sunnen hone. Better, but we are going to have to go bigger to .455+ to come anywhere near cleaning it up. Plan is to stop when we get clean steel all the way around the ball seat entrance, so that a bullet which “fits” has a positive gas seal. Any circumferential tool marks or pits farther down the throats we are going to ignore, once there is no longer a pathway for powder gases to gas cut-the bullet.

While it will never be match target quality, I'm sure that simply getting the throats all uniform, even if a bit large, will be fine with soft bullet which fit, and with mild loads which are appropriate for a 100-year-old revolver.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Ed Harris posted this 19 November 2016

And this is the 50-yard “before” group, firing two-handed, standing, double-action, center of mass hold.  The 5-grain Unique load with the 265-grain bullet is borderline “too hot” and not recommended.  I wanted to see if 1/2 grain powder would compensate for the huge cylinder gap.  It does, but I wouldn't want to shoot that load in a older gun having a tighter gap.  Also, the tight cylinder throats found in many of these guns run the pressure up!

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Ed Harris posted this 19 November 2016

This is a 25-yard group fired off sandbags while checking loads through the chronograph. Pretty good for an old war horse, but occasional fliers are to be expected with the variations in chambers. That is not a “called” flier, it is the chamber with “tight” .449 cylinder throat.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Ed Harris posted this 19 November 2016

Update on progress of Webley cylinder from Doug Phillips:

"Here are the .4555” throats, and chambers, all polished up with an 800grit ball hone. A .4555' pin gage goes smoothly and evenly in all the throats, a .456” won't go in any of them. I am quite satisfied with this endeavor, and for sure want to know how well it shoots.

I am thinking that at the very worst, if you have 2 chambers that are not shooting to the same point of impact as the others, two things can happen. You could mark them with empty 45 ACP brass that would remain in the chambers, or you could send the cylinder back and see what taking the throats to .4565” does for it.

My thoughts for the best scenario are that you fire the gun enough times to fill in the remaining pits, and determine that it shoots pretty dang good and just roll with it. So I can blue the chambers as you see them here and send it on back and take it from there. I think it will not waste any time in making it's own statement. You should see a tremendous improvement right away. For once, the caliber REALLY IS what the boolits are, and you now truly have a 455 Webley!"

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Ed Harris posted this 20 November 2016

Last final photo of cylinder Doug took as he is packing to ship back and return, along with polished out RCBS case sizer die, so that brass will not be worked excessively, and honed Lee bullet sizer die to match throats.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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JeffinNZ posted this 20 November 2016

ED: Interesting to see the velocity comparison between the Webley and Ruger. The Kynoch ammo shows the smallest difference followed by the 5gr Unique load. Do you have any Blue Dot or Herco knocking around. I wonder if a slightly slower powder than Unique might claw back some of that cylinder gap loss.

Cheers from New Zealand

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Ed Harris posted this 20 November 2016

I don't have any, but might shop around. The Unique left a lot of unburned powder and was very dirty,though...

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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RicinYakima posted this 21 November 2016

Been loading the .455 MK 1 case for about 15 years. Never been able to get anything slower than SR7625 or W231 to burn even half way cleanly. Stopping at 12,000 cup, anything slower just doesn't burn well. However a load of FFF compressed 1/8 inch burns very nicely! FWIW, Ric

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Ed Harris posted this 21 November 2016

Sounds to me I may as well stick with Bullseye!

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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RicinYakima posted this 21 November 2016

Or Titegroup, or R123, or AA#2, etc.. There are lots of choices, but no tested data except for Bullseye. What ever you choose, it will all be burned before the base of the bullet gets to the front of the cylinder.

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Ed Harris posted this 21 November 2016

I have some TiteGroup and may work up some loads using the Ruger Old Army with Kirst conversion as the platform. The Ruger runs about 90-100 faster than the Webley, so for safety sake, I would limit .455 loads to about 700 fps in the 7-1/2” Ruger, were I to try them in the Webley.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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M3 Mitch posted this 23 November 2016

This morning I noticed I have a copy of Handloader, I want to say from about November 2015, and the cover story is on shooting the 455.

Probably you already knew that, and probably there is nothing in the article you don't already know, but FWIW.

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Ed Harris posted this 23 November 2016

Have not seen that article, but several people have told me about it. If somebody could scan the article into .pdf I would like to see a copy. I don't subscribe to the magazine and none of the stores here carry it. My .455 cylinder arrived back from DougGuy today and I'm assembling the revolver now.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Dale53 posted this 25 November 2016

Ed; Here is a link to my Dropbox for a copy of the article:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zxgblh0s6w4t4u2/Webley%20.455%20revolver.pdf?dl=0

Let me know if it was successfully downloaded.

Dale53

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Ed Harris posted this 25 November 2016

Was successful downloading on my second attempt.   Seems that my anti-virus interpreted the Lockbox opening page asking me to logon or create an account as a phishing site.  I was eventually able to bypass this and download finally. The article is good as far as what it covers, but does so in less detail than what I've put together.   I am glad to see that our load data is in agreement and that I independently came to the same conclusions that he did. But I think my concentration on the modern Accurate molds is more constructive than trying to use the inferior design antique traditional bullets.   Also, my observations with two Webleys both having tight cylinder throats smaller than barrel groove diameter, and also tighter bores than either Colt or S&W .455 revolvers of the period is noteworthy, and warrants further discussion, which I will now add to my draft.  People who load based upon what they read are liable to use oversized bullets which will run pressure up, and while soft hollow-based bullets will tolerate being squeezed through tight throats and will slug up again to take the rifling of a larger barrel, doing so is NOT the best technical solution. Being able to show results before and after cylinder reaming of my Mk VI should be interesting, and I am confident now that reaming the cylinder throats from their original random .449-.453 to a uniform .4555” all the way around, and having new Accurate molds cut which drop .4545” bullets, allowing for growth from age hardening during long term storage, was the correct approach. I also have full confidence that using 3.5 grains of Bullseye with bullets from 240-260 grains, specifically Accurate 45-240H1 and 45-259H is a more useful approximation of original service velocity, with a superior modern long, flat-nosed bullet.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Dale53 posted this 25 November 2016

Ed, Glad to hear that it worked for you (finally😊).

Dale53

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RicinYakima posted this 25 November 2016

There is a reason that we older shooters miss Ken Waters, skimpy research and data in “Handloader” magazine. The kid from Idaho does a good job, but his stuff is mostly modern hunting and CAS stuff. JMHO, Ric

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billglaze posted this 25 November 2016

Ric: Yep, I also miss Ken Waters. Everything I have read of his has been well researched, and most all of his stuff I could agree with. I still have, (and refer to) his “Pet Loads” two volumes of which sit right by my bench. If he doesn't have the exact size nail you're looking for, at least there is usually something compatible enough to at least get me started on a safe working load.

Bill

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. My fate is not entirely in Gods hands, if I have a weapon in mine.

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Ed Harris posted this 28 December 2016

Latest mold coming from Accurate to better match chamber throat diameters of my honed Webley cylinder.

With min. diameter per drawing .454 with + tolerance, as-cast and unsized diameter should be good fit for the .4555” honed throats with little or no sizing required.

 

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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bsavictor500 posted this 22 January 2017

I have a mkvi 1917 in excellent condition-the cylinder throats don't matter if you use a hollow base bullet. Mine is extremely accurate with 2.5-3 grains of red dot and a lee 300 grain hollow base bullet .454. I use 45 long colt cases shortened so they will just fit in the cylinders when loaded. Vince Anderson... Good Luck

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Ed Harris posted this 22 January 2017

I understand the rationale as to why the Brits made cylinder throats tight, but I wish they could at least have made them uniform.

I wanted to clean up the old tool marks and pitting as much as practical while bringing the throats up to a uniform size so that I could load bullets other than the hollow-based original type.  The results obtained by doing so are satisfying to me.

Thanks for the info on Red Dot.

 

 

I am going to experiment with Accurate 45-290H in the Mark 1 cases made by Ron Reed of Reed's Custom Ammo, by cutting down and head turning Starline .45 Schofield cases.

 

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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