38-55 Marlin Cowboy and SAECO bullet 571

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  • Last Post 23 April 2014
fa38 posted this 17 August 2007

Does anybody have any experience shooting the Marlin Cowboy in 38-55 with the 300 grain tapered SAECO bullet number 571. 

Does it work through the action?  What kind of accuracy.

SAECO also makes a 255 grain bullet.  Same questions.

Thanks

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ktw posted this 20 August 2007

I am also interested in hearing anyone's experience with Saeco 571.

I have a Uberti 1885/38-55 on the way and would like to find a 300 grain bullet that casts at .380+ in softer alloys.

-ktw

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giorgio de galleani posted this 21 August 2007

Hallo ktw,I have two high wall uberti ,one in 45-70 and one in 38-55.a saeco gas check bullet casts 376 in wheel weights and shoots poorly,an ancient Lyman 375 248 throws shotgun patterns (the base casts 385)

an rcbs gas check casts good 379 bullets that shoot -1.5 MOA in a scoped cz 375 H&H and 2 or 3 MOA in the High Wall.

A friend is happy with a 250 grainer NEI mould sized 380,I haven't seen the targets.Stay away from the cheep tang sights .

I had a Lyman 378674 postell mould that was lost in a  house fire.A small batch of bullets survived,they are not perfectly round,with a base band of 3795-380 dia,the middle bands tapering irregularily to 379 and the cilindrical part mikes 375-376.the nose engraves nicely into the grooves,   SIZED 379 SHOT INTO 3-4 MOA but handlubed and shot as cast I made a 1 MOA 100 meters group at 100 meters.With open metallic sights.With a load of 15 grains of VIHTAVUORI 110

I have experienced big dimension variation from Lyman moulds of the same number and different year of manifacture. 

I am willing to buy another mould of a similar design and dimensions ,a 4 cavity one as I dislike casting with single or double cavity moulds.I am planning to order one from Veral Smith.If I'll have success I will loudly praise myself on this site.Regards Giorgio.

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ktw posted this 23 August 2007

Thanks for the information Giorgio.

Sorry fa38 for sidetracking your thread.

-ktw

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fa38 posted this 24 August 2007

Not a problem ktw.  I guess I will just have to purchase the SAECO 571 mould and find out for myself.

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ktw posted this 25 August 2007

If you do, and it doesn't work out in the lever action, let me know and I will buy it from you.

-ktw

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WRDSMTH posted this 09 November 2007

I use the SAECO 571 bullet in my Uberti 38-55 and it does quite well. Since the bore of my rifle is slightly oversize(.381), I shoot them unsized. The bullets are lubricated with liquid alox by holding the nose of the bullet with a clothes pin and “painting” the LA into the grooves.  The LA is allowed to dry overnight and a second coat is applied if needed. By applying the lube directly to the grooves, lube is kept out of the seater die. 16 grains of SR 4759 and a Federal 210 LR primer work well.

Caution! If you use the above procedure, you might want to check to see if a round will chamber so loaded. My reloads would not chamber in friend's  38-55 Shiloh Sharps.  

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Tom Acheson posted this 06 November 2013

How's this for a delinquent response? Well....I have the rifle (336 in .38-55) and the Saeco mould is on order. The newest Lyman CB handbook says not to use it in a lever action but what do I know? Like Giorgio says...."If I'll have success I will loudly praise myself on this site."

Tom

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JSH posted this 06 November 2013

Dunno how much truth or myth to this. I looked at buying a 38-55 marlin cowboy. I was warned that the chamber was cut for a .380 bullet and bore was .377. These were some SASS gents and they said I would not be happy. Any one got the low down on this? I have since gotten a donor action and a tapered octagon barrel. I want a half or 2/3 magazine. Another project that needs done. Jeff

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RDUPRAZ posted this 06 November 2013

JSH:

Your SASS buddies have their numbers reversed. The common problem with those 336 38-55 CB's was that the chamber neck was too small to allow a cast bullet that was large enough to fit the grooves to be chambered. Much like a revolver where the chamber throats are smaller that the groove diameter of the barrel.

I have had a Marlin 336 CB 38-55 for several years now and had the chamber neck opened up just after I got it, with a special reamer made just for the Marlins. While it shot very small groups with jacketed bullets, after the reaming of the chamber neck, cast bullets also shoot nice little groups.

If I recall, my Marlin has a .379” groove and I size and load both the Lee PB and the RCBS GC at .381".

If I had a chance at another Marlin 38-55 that no one had screwed the chamber up by trying to open it up, I would jump on it.

There are several different reasons floating around why Marlin did this. And it seems to be unique just to the Marlin CB 38-55.

RD

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JSH posted this 10 November 2013

RD got the badger 38-55 barrel for cheap:-). Thing was marked “38” and a 357 bullet just fell through. There was a crowd at the gs I listened to all the egg spurts. Must be a muzzle loader barrel. I won't say what I gave for it as you all would come up with pet names for me. Lol It slugged out at .375ish so my .377 stuff I have on hand should work fine. Got action, barrel brass and 375 and 38-55 dies. Now just to get it all put together and go play. Jeff

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nimrod posted this 11 November 2013

I have some friends that have a H&R in the 38-55 Target model that has a .380 groove and a real tight chamber. I don't remember for sure but think that the chamber was reammed to about .395 from the factory that made for some tight fitting shells and cast bullets imposssible. Returned it to the factory of course they said that it was within specks and then took it to a local gunsmith and he couldn't see anything wrong with it and told them to just shoot facory ammo it'll be OK. Finally they got it to a smith that shoots cast bullets and he reamed it out and it now shoots surprizingly well.

How and what the factory's are thinking when they cut a 38-55 chamber is beyond me. One of the great cartridges of all time and they have a good time really screwing it up!!

RB

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RDUPRAZ posted this 11 November 2013

I found my Marlin CB 38-55 some years after they had been discontinued. It appeared to be new and looked like it might have been one of the last rifles to be assembled by Marlin because of the inletting and fitting of the butt stock. Everything else was fine. I ended up making a new butt stock for the rifle.

At the same time that I bought the rifle, I also added two boxes of WW factory jacketed, just to be able to shoot it and get some brass right away. And knowing the chamber/groove size problems of these guns, I was not expecting much for groups. But, was surprised to see raggedy hole clusters at 50 yds with these factory jacketed. How could this be?

Well, on some forum, don't remember where, some guy sectioned one of those WW factory bullets and it was not jacket at all. But they appeared to be soft lead and copper plated. I think this explained why those factory rounds shot well. Loaded to a higher pressure causing the soft lead core to expand into the grooves.

As to the chamber/groove dimensions, I have read that it had something to do with SAAMI using the original groove specs and modern chamber specs. when standardized or something along these lines. And with our litigation happy society in which we live, Marlin didn't want to deviate. Don't know.

However, those Marlins shoot really well when things are set up right. But if I found a used one, I would carefully inspect the chamber to see if it had been messed up. Because I know that some people have used a common drill bit in a attempt to ream the chamber throat.

RD

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Tom Acheson posted this 24 November 2013

Just received my Redding dies and a 2-cavity #571. Using an alloy of 50-50 (wheelweights and lino) they drop from the mould at 294-grains. It is definitely a tapered bullet. Here are the band diameters from the bottom up. Bottom---0.3827" Next---0.3815" Next---0.381" Next---0.3795 Next---0.377" Next---0.375" Next---0.3735"

It would be nice to have a sizing die at about 0.380” but the largest that Saeco makes is 0.378". But I'll try the lapping method addressed in a different post earlier this week.

Before that though I'll hand lube a few and see how they chamber in the gun. Supposedly this rifle has a “tight” chamber. In a situation like that case mouth neck thickness will be a factor. My WW cases are about 0.008” to 0.010” and the Starline cases are 0.007” to 0.008” so I'll start with the Starlines.

The Lyman 375499 looks like a candidate to try and if it works get an Accurate Moulds copy of it without the gas check shank.

And after that, if it ain't below 35 degrees outside but good luck....this is Minnesota and early winter....go out and shoot a few.

Tom

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Tom Acheson posted this 22 April 2014

I think I found out why Lyman says not to use the Saeco 571 in a lever action....a chambered round cannot be removed if you decide not to shoot it. Same thing happens with the Accurate #379-245D. Shoot it but don't expect to extract a loaded round...the only solution is to shoot it!

Tom

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 22 April 2014

don't forget the 37x from lee ... those idiot-savants keep hitting homers much to my delight. mine works best of 4 molds in my friends m94, from 16 b metal.

less than the cost of a pizza y coke.

anybody wanna try some, .. my friend shot mine all up but i can pour more. pm me.

ken

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argie1891 posted this 23 April 2014

I have a marlin cowboy in 38-55 and with both the lyman bullets I have shot 10 shot groups into the 10 ring at 100 yards my load is 9 gr. of unique with the lyman 375449. I also killed a deer with this rifle using 25 gr. of rl7 and the same bullet. the lyman 375248 shoots almost as good but I haven't shot it as much as I haven't owned the mould as long. argie1891

if you think you have it figured out then you just dont understand

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