Carbine/Revolver combo using same ammo

  • 691 Views
  • Last Post 13 June 2016
M3 Mitch posted this 09 June 2016

This is more a historical question than a practical one.  The well-known “cowboy” carbine or rifle and revolver using the same ammo were popular back in the day, simplified ammo supply questions although limiting power for the long gun.  32-20, 38-40, and 44-40 were popular calibers, Winchester and Marlin building the long guns, Colt and Smith&Wesson the wheelguns.

 I know a few carbines have been built recently for 45 Colt, but back at the beginning of the 20th century, apparently no one built a carbine for it. 

So, why is this?  The 45 Colt is a bit bigger diameter cartridge, maybe the old lever-gun receivers were not big enough?   Are the recent guns bigger in the receiver?

No practical reason to need to know, just curious.  I figure the crowd on here is erudite enough that maybe someone knows. :D

Attached Files

Order By: Standard | Newest | Votes
RicinYakima posted this 09 June 2016

The original rim lip diameter of the 45 Colt's cartridge was less than 1/2 of what it is now. There was also no relief groove in front of the rim. Therefore, the claw extractor would not reliable pull black powder cases from the chamber. When the government made the 1909 45 Colt cartridge for the New Service, they widened the rim so it would reliable extract. That is the dimension that is used today. Ric

Attached Files

Ed Harris posted this 11 June 2016

Also in the Winchester '73, Burgess, Whitney-Kennedy, Colt Lighting and other rifles of the period there was no primary extraction and you wouldn't get a straight cylindrical case out. Balloon head cases were also less well supported

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

Attached Files

M3 Mitch posted this 13 June 2016

Googling around on the topic of .45 Colt, the Wikipedia article says that Colt did not offer to license this proprietary cartridge to other rifle makers. Although, the fact that Colt made repeating rifles themselves, and AFIK didn't offer the .45 Colt in them makes me think the technical issues with a very small rim and a straight-walled case probably also played a role. That and just a little bit of common-sense gunsmithing experience - I could definitely see an early .45 Colt sticking in the chamber of a lever-gun.  With practically no rim, and straight sides, hey, what could possibly go wrong? ;)

Wikipedia article on the Colt Lightning Carbine indicates the original model was not offered in .45 Colt, but that modern reproductions are offered in that caliber, in my mind anyway supporting the small rim/straight sides no want to come out after firing idea. 

Attached Files

Close