32 acp defense loads

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  • Last Post 22 October 2016
DBW posted this 24 April 2016

I have a Walther PP 32 acp that I would like to use as a dress carry and would like to know if anyone has worked up a good defense load that is reliable and effective for what it is. I would like to use a readily available bullet mold and powder. Would like alloy and any other info.....DBW

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Ed Harris posted this 24 April 2016

Accurate 31-087T cast 1:30 tin/lead, sized .311", RWS or Fiocchi brass of average weight 40 grains, Federal 200 primer, RCBS Little Dandy Rotor #7 to meter 5.6 grains Alliant #2400, which is a full case with slight compression, seat to ctg. OAL 0.95-0.96” and roll crimp.

With 87-grain solid bullet velocity is 900 fps from Walther PP, when bullet is hollow-pointed by Erik at http://www.hollowpointmold.com>http://www.hollowpointmold.com to 82 grains velocity is 940 fps.

For practice load use 2 grains of Bullseye or Red Dot for 830 fps, or 2.5 grains of Unique for 850 fps. For other powders consult Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 4th Edition (2010) and use data listed on p.237 for Ideal #313249.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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R. Dupraz posted this 24 April 2016

Reloads for practice --- Factory for carry.

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RicinYakima posted this 24 April 2016

I am using the RCBS 32 CM bullet for practice with 2.2 grains of WW231. (This is not a good load for the Kel-Tec's by the way, nor any other bullet heavier than 75 grains. It is not a pressure issue, but ejection cycle is out of sync.)

The hottest factory load is the FIOCCHI 7,65 Browning 73 grain load made in Italy, not the 71 grain made in Mexico.

FWIW: None of the common HP's will reliably expand from a 4 inch Savage when shot through a denim shirt, tee shirt and empty leather wallet. These are wrapped around an empty milk jug, backed by full ones.

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Brodie posted this 25 April 2016

Ric, I would not worry about expansion from a 32ACP.  I would not even try for it.  My approach would be the same as hunting dangerous game with solids.  Use the heaviest bullet with the largest meplat that will reliably feed in and cycle the weapon ( also the heaviest load I can safely get away with--both for the gun and myself).  I would then practice until I could quickly and reliably place my shots and hope to all heck that there was a good back stop available behind my opponent.  In other words do just what I am doing now with my 22WMR.  Brodie

B.E.Brickey

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RicinYakima posted this 25 April 2016

Brode, I am too fat for fisticuffs; too old to run. If I show them the pistol and they don't leave; it is putting bullets their way to get to the truck for a rifle. AP '06's will solve most of your problems. Ric

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Brodie posted this 25 April 2016

I'm like you Ric.  I don't believe in fisticuffs, but I'll beat the heck out of em with my cane, and a 32acp is better than a hand full of air.  For that matter a 22rf. is better than nothing. 

I was hit by shotgun pellets from 70 yds once and am in no hurry to repeat the experience.

I wasn't criticizing your weapon choice just offering my 2 cents worth of advice.  Personally I feel that relying on expansion from handgun bullets is like asking the Easter Bunny for a Christmas present.  Unreliable in its occurrence and amount.  I personally think of them (pistol rounds) as all solids and non expanding.  Brodie

B.E.Brickey

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DBW posted this 25 April 2016

Thanks Ed, I will give this a try.Will be a little while to get to the range, because of other commitments........DBW

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DBW posted this 25 April 2016

Understood Old Coot. I was exposed to the Walther PP in 32 acp when on the unit rifle team in Mainz Ger. The local police used them and I had several conversations with several as they used the pistol range for training for also. They were much better with them as a whole than the MP units that practiced there also. I see it as the next step up from the 22 wmr though I would not want to bet on the outcome between the two in real situations, the main advantage I see is the 32 is reloadable and I got a really good deal on it some time ago from a widow.......DBW

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DBW posted this 25 April 2016

Rick ,appreciate the info. We are on the same page.........DBW

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45 2.1 posted this 25 April 2016

You might try the MP 32 ACP mold..... It lets you cast an unlimited supply of ~75 gr. hollow points or solids. Loaded with Red Dot to European standards in the PP, it will be quite effective.

Accurate 31-087T cast 1:30 tin/lead, sized .311". Nothing wrong with Ed's bullet or alloy/size. The old blunt solid versus hollow point controversy is in effect though. Having shot a lot of small game and varmints with both (out of a PP), I can tell you which gives up the ghost first though. FWIW: None of the common HP's will reliably expand from a 4 inch Savage when shot through a denim shirt, tee shirt and empty leather wallet Loaded to European standards, the MP mold isn't like that, it expands and knocks on the backbone also. I would not worry about expansion from a 32ACP.  I would not even try for it. Unless you try specialty ammo, the regular American loads are mild. Casting and loading your own stuff makes the 32 ACP shine. Remember, you own a German produced pistol and they loaded their ammo to a different standard.

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Ed Harris posted this 26 April 2016

CIP parameters for 7.65 Browning Source:  http://www.cip-bobp.org/homologation/en/tdccpublic?page=1&cartridgetypeid=4

Max. Sample Avg. 1600Bar

PMax X-bar+3Sigma 1840 Bar 

Proof Pressure 2080 Bar

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Hamish posted this 27 April 2016

45 2.1 wrote: You might try the MP 32 ACP mold..... It lets you cast an unlimited supply of ~75 gr. hollow points or solids. Loaded with Red Dot to European standards in the PP, it will be quite effective. The only problem with that statement is that there are none available for sale on his website, and the chances of their being a new production run are almost as good as getting tickets for Elvis' triumphant return engagement at the Tropicana on the Vegas Strip.

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Ed Harris posted this 27 April 2016

Accurate has several versions of 75-grain flatnose for .32 ACP, of shape similar to the Buffalo Bore loads, with either conventional lube groove or small tumble-lube grooves. You could then have Erik do the HP conversion, but I prefer the heavy bullet, reasonable meplat and guaranteed deep penetration. The 31-087T flattened blunt nose is a more reliable feeder in guns which run hardball, but don't like the Buffalo Bore Shape.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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45 2.1 posted this 27 April 2016

TheAmishGolfballShooter wrote: The only problem with that statement is that there are none available for sale on his website, and the chances of their being a new production run are almost as good as getting tickets for Elvis' triumphant return engagement at the Tropicana on the Vegas Strip.

The last list I have from him has two 4 cavity 32 ACP molds left on it. You have to PM him or e-mail a request. There have been two runs so far...................

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Eutectic posted this 06 May 2016

I carried a Colt 32 1903 for my tour in Vietnam. I wore out (rotted off) one holster. I could have sold it for big bucks. You could buy a 45 for 10$ and I was offered 100$ for the little Colt. Why? You could HIDE it! The stupid rules had us unarmed when in town. This was BS in a war zone, I was NEVER unarmed, and this proved a lifesaver. I did not sell it because my Dad wanted it back, he carried it in the Pacific in WWII. I inherited it and owned 2 other 32's, I did a lot of work with 32 ammo. I only loaded cast for practice and bought those. I shot a lot of buckshot with 2 grains of Bullseye - they will even feed most of the time. I tried all the commercial HP ammo I could find.  Some did not feed, an instant rejection. Many refused to expand, and when they did penetration was too shallow for my taste. Velocity was all over the map, use a chronograph, claimed factory velocity is frequently fiction. Sivertip's fed 100% and expanded but you might not like the penetration. In my opinion the 25, 32 and 380 are too underpowered  to benefit from a expanding bullet. I think Ed Harris is correct - get as blunt a bullet as will feed reliably and push it as hard as you can. Steve  

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Ed Harris posted this 06 May 2016

R. Dupraz wrote: Reloads for practice --- Factory for carry. Only factory loads I would carry are the RWS, Sellier & Bellot or Fiocchi 73-grain FMJ which produce 900 fps from a Beretta Tomcat with 2.4” barrel and approach 1000 fps from a Walther PP with 3.9” barrel.  This link shows what Euro hardball does when shot into gelatin:

http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2012/11/clear-gel-terminal-testing-sellier.html>http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2012/11/clear-gel-terminal-testing-sellier.html

Chronograph results 5-shot strings of various .32 ACP FMJs, from Beretta Model 3032 INOX with 2.4” barrel:

R-P 71 FMJ 785 fps W-W 71 FMJ 847 fps Magtech 71 FMJ 806 fps Fiocchi 73 FMJ 845 fps RWS 73 FMJ 959 fps Sellier& Bellot 73 FMJ 938 fps Norma 73 FMJ 894 fps Geco WW2 steel cased 73 FMJ 907 fps Handload, Magtech 71 FMJ, 2.5 Bullseye 910 fps.

The 75-grain Buffalo Bore penetrates a full inch of denim and it still plows though a 14.5” SIM-TEST block before escaping out the side of the block.  This performance is typical for a 75-grain hard cast FN at a bit over 900 fps.- See more at: http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2012/06/buffalo-bore-32-acp-75-grain-hcfn.html#sthash.6gadDNL7.dpuf>http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2012/06/buffalo-bore-32-acp-75-grain-hcfn.html#sthash.6gadDNL7.dpuf    However, the overall cartridge length of the Buffalo Bore load is only 0.715” and it will not feed reliably from most WW2-era pistols which were designed for hardball.  Rim lock can be a problem with short rounds in .32 ACP, which made the Buffalo Bore a non-starter for me. A heavier flatnosed bullet of shape similar to the Buffalo Bore, having a longer nose to provide overall cartridge length of not less than 0.94” in .32 ACP would have possibilities.

UPDATE:  THAT bullet now exists as the Accurate 31-090B

Left to right:

WW2-era 73-grain WRA hardball 75-grain Buffalo Bore FN, which fails to feed in my M1903 Colt! Accurate 31-090B, undergoing testing, has promise Accurate 31-087T, MOST RELIABLE FEEDING HEAVY .32 ACP BULLET IS WELL PROVEN! 

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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DBW posted this 07 May 2016

Ed, thanks for the new info. I have a box of ww 71 gr. which I got two malfunctions out of  about thirty and a box and a half of the fiochi 73 gr. which gave me no malfunctions. Checked accurate website which told me out of stock on the 31-087t. Still think that sounds like what I want. So still looking for an available mold..........DBW

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Ed Harris posted this 07 May 2016

Turnaround on made to order at Accurate is about 4 weeks. If you want the 31-087T you should go ahead and order one.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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358156hp posted this 08 May 2016

Accurate moulds are made to order, and to your specifications.

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6thtexas posted this 08 May 2016

Ed's load is a great one. if I hadn't already had a 77 FP Accurate mold, I would have bought that design.. BTW the Accurate 77 gr. FP with 5.9 grains of 2400, loaded to .945” works great in my Beretta Tomcat and will do about 913 fps out of that gun. 2.2 grains of Bullseye with the same bullets will run about 830 fps and the brass is easier to find!

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Ed Harris posted this 08 May 2016

The extra data point is really helpful! I've had people ask about using Alliant #2400 with lighter bullets in the .32 ACP, but I was reluctant to recommend a load I hadn't tried. This gives me incentive to do so and validate yours, just as you are helping me with mine.

If results can be reproduced, predictably, that is a step in the right direction.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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RicinYakima posted this 08 May 2016

Since I carry two Kel-Tec's in the hot weather, I am interested to good loads that will not have a pressure curve too long and disrupt functioning. These little 7 oz. ten shot pistols are good, but sensitive to pressure curves.

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Ed Harris posted this 08 May 2016

RicinYakima wrote: Since I carry two Kel-Tec's in the hot weather, I am interested to good loads that will not have a pressure curve too long and disrupt functioning. These little 7 oz. ten shot pistols are good, but sensitive to pressure curves. Ric,  If you would like some of the 87-grain bullets to try, let me know.  I run them in my Beretta Tomcat and Walther PP, but I have no experience with the Keltec.   Is the KP32 a blowback or locked breech?  My 2 grain Bullseye practice load should run well in anything.  I believe the #2400 loads are OK, based on inspection of the fired cases, but they have not been pressure tested.  Quickload results are only approximate... Your call...

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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RicinYakima posted this 08 May 2016

Ed, I have used some of your 87's with 1.8 grains of Bullseye and they work fine. However, 2.2 grains of SR7625 has too long of pulse, I think, as slide speed to very quick. Yep, they are locked breech and work fine with commercial loads, but they are picky about reloads. As slide speed picks up, the take-down / barrel pin tries to separate from the plastic frame, so the barrel fails to rise fully and lock into the slide. Ric

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DBW posted this 08 May 2016

Thanks Ed, ordered it just a minute ago.....DBW

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6thtexas posted this 08 May 2016

That 77FP/5.9 gr. 2400 burns clean as does the 87 gr. /5.6 2400. BTW, I just used std. small pistol primers. I found the load suggested on the Ranch Dog site. However they listed a shorter OAL of .915". Like Ed says, these loads haven't been pressure tested... so it is anyone's call that tries them. Cases with both loads look good and I have the Tomcat in my pocket loaded with them now. The lighter Bullseye loads I use for practice.

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Ed Harris posted this 18 May 2016

I'm having Accurate cut a new mold, based on 31-077B, which is the Buffalo Bore bullet, but increasing the weight to 90 grains, which shoots to the fixed sights of .32 S&W Long and .32 Colt New Police revolvers, having an adequate 0.2” meplat to let the air out of Bunny Wabbits. 

The plan is to also try them in the .32 ACP .  This bullet is sort of a blending taking the front end of 31-077B and the back end of 31-114D, to make a heavier, bevel based bullet with crimp groove which could be used in either the .32 ACP or the S&W Long, or H&R Magnum.

My objective is to see how close I can get to .380 ACP payload and velocity in the .32 ACP.

I will consider 850 fps a victory with this heavy a “BOOLIT!"

UPDATED TO SHOW THE 31-090B PRODUCTION MOLD AFTER “TWEAKS"

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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DBW posted this 18 May 2016

Ed, looks interesting. I usually try to stay away from bb designs in my revolvers but probably does not hurt in an auto. Be interested in your results. Have not tried bb's in my 32 h&r or 357 mag due to what I have read and have no personal experience with them, might be worth a try if you have good results...........DBW

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Ed Harris posted this 20 May 2016

Bevel base prevents pulling a fin off the base when a throat diameter bullet is extruded into a smaller groove diameter. Less prone to base deformation in heavier loads and more uniform muzzle exit.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Ed Harris posted this 22 May 2016

FYI, there is now a .380 ACP version as well, listed as 35-120H. 

This one is a smoother feeder in tight barrels in which the more blunt 35-122T jammed in the rifling.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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DBW posted this 22 May 2016

Ed, keeping  an eye on this. appreciate your work on this.......DBW

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DBW posted this 22 May 2016

6th Texas, Thanks for the input. In shooting up the factory loads I can see that I will need a practice load that does not scatter brass to the four winds (reminds my of why I normally prefer revolvers). If these auto's were not so easy to carry and unobtrusive I would carry my SP 101 instead. I will play with your load in a few weeks when i am able to do some casting......DBW

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Ed Harris posted this 22 May 2016

For pleasant plinking and practice loads, the 87-grain bullets cycle most guns down to the lightest charge of Bullseye you can accurately measure, about 1.5 grains.

My Beretta Tomcat will cycle down to 1 grain of Tite Group, but it is tedious to weigh them and I haven't found a measure which will accurately meter such tiny charges...

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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DBW posted this 23 May 2016

Thanks Ed, I received my three cavity accurate 31-87t mold but will be a few weeks before I be able start casting. Need bullets for four revolvers, and four rifles. Gonna do some shootin this summer!!.........DBW 

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Ed Harris posted this 03 June 2016

Shown at right is the Accurate 31-090B loaded into the .32 ACP at 0.95” OAL which fits well into the magazine such that rounds are unable to shift longitudinally to cause rimlock.   Charge is 5.6 grains of Alliant #2400.

The shorter overall length round at left is the Buffalo Bore 75-grain FN factory load, which is assembled with a compressed charge of an unknown spherical powder, which “might” be Power Pistol, but that is only a guess...

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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M3 Mitch posted this 04 June 2016

Now you have me thinking how this bullet might work in the .30 Luger...All I have ever used so far is a 93 grain R.N. Lyman bullet - which gives me “Minute of Beer Can” out to about 40 yards if I do my part -

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Ed Harris posted this 04 June 2016

I plan to try this bullet in the 7.62x25 CZ52 and will report when  I get around to it.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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DBW posted this 04 June 2016

Ed that bullet and oal looks about all that can be hoped for with the 32 acp........DBW

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LIMPINGJ posted this 04 June 2016

I was going to order the 31-87T from Tom for use in my wife's Tomcat and my CZ 7.62x25. I am going to wait now till I see how Ed's 31-90B works. Ed what are your thoughts on your 31-90B for use as a plinking bullet in 30 cal rifles?

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Ed Harris posted this 04 June 2016

My 31-090B as-cast as-cast has driving bands .3115 and nose diameter ahead of crimp groove .308 so I can load in the .32 ACP without sizing, just tumbling lightly in Lee Liquid Alox.

It should be a good fit in .30 cal. rifles if you keep the loads very light and subsonic. Above 1100 fps heavier bullets do better, but for “Cat Sneeze” about 3 grains of Bullseye in any .30 cal. rifle would work.

And in seating a soft, flat-nosed, cast bullet, inserting a 1/4” steel ball bearing into the nose punch and readjusting the die, enables you to cold-form a cup-point into your 31-090B bullet as you compress the #2400 powder charge and crimp.

I need to expansion test some of these I made from 1:30 alloy

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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M3 Mitch posted this 26 July 2016

R. Dupraz wrote: Reloads for practice --- Factory for carry. I have heard that there are legal pitfalls from using a handload in defense, then again I have heard that if you are justified in shooting someone, what you shoot them with makes little difference.

What do the rest of you guys think?  Not looking to get a “political” argument started or anything, just wondering if someone has some received wisdom on the topic.

I frankly don't know if handloads for defense are a problem or not. 

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Brodie posted this 26 July 2016

The old argument used to be; ” If you made the bullet and loaded the cartridge then you were demonstrating that you had 'malice aforethought' and planned to use said cartridge to kill the deceased.” .   It could also be said that ;  ” If you bought a particular round for self defense purposes then you were guilty of planning to kill someone, or first degree murder." Here in Arizona they seemed to have dropped that BS {unless you are a political football} and look only at the circumstances of the shooting.  Did you have a reasonable expectation to believe that your life and or well being were in danger? 

Depending where you are (eg. In Canada you are not allowed to defend yourself or otheres with deadly force period>).  Decide for yourself just how much trouble and legal problems you are willing to face.  Personally I use what the local police and Sheriff department use in guns and ammunition.  It makes it tougher for a DA to claim you took unfair advantage of some poor innocent scumbag who tried to kill me and or my wife.  Brodie

B.E.Brickey

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M3 Mitch posted this 26 July 2016

Brodie, that makes a lot of sense, to carry what the LEO's carry, but unless you are open carrying, a lot of their gats are pretty big for a regular guy to conceal.

I could see this as a good argument for going with a 9mm as a carry gun.

Does not really apply to the 32 ACP though.

Thanks for the thoughtful and useful reply!

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RicinYakima posted this 26 July 2016

M3, It depends upon where the shooting takes place. I live the county just west of you, and my son is one of the deputy prosecuting attorneys. What weapon you use or is loaded with would not be a factor. In Seattle, you will be criminally charged no matter what. Unless the PA is doing without coffee that day, then anything can happen. FWIW

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Ed Harris posted this 27 July 2016

I was told by a retired judge here that there exists no case law in which hand loads or not made a difference. If anyone can find a case citation otherwise, please post it. My learned friend says that it is “gun store fiction."

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Brodie posted this 27 July 2016

Ed Harris may have the right of it.  I got my information from an ADA in Southern Ca.  She sited it to me as a possibility, not a fact.  She also told me if I shot somebody outside to drag them into the house.  Moving a corpse is never a good idea.  They leave tracks and a blood trail.

When I said carry the caliber and ammo the cops do I did not mean that you needed to carry the exact same model weapon.  There are plenty of small pistols out there in just about every caliber a cop could carry.  Furthermore, the law keeps changing along with the times.  I personally believe that if you are in a situation where you MUST defend yourself with DEADLY FORCE then do it.  The up side is dead is permanent, and trials and juries are only for the living.  At least if you have to face that scenario you will still be alive.  Brodie

B.E.Brickey

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RicinYakima posted this 27 July 2016

Brodie, that is the essence of the issue: you have to alive to go to trial. Everything else is secondary to staying alive.

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Brodie posted this 27 July 2016

Agreed, Rick, That is why we carry.  Is the 32ACp a defensive gun?  It is certainly better than nothing and, as we have discussed many times reguarding hunting ammo and calibers, Where you place the bullet has more impact than just hitting the  assailant. Load the round to European specs as Ed recommends, and place them where they will do the most good.

B.E.Brickey

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harleyrock posted this 28 July 2016

Old Coot:"Here in Arizona they seemed to have dropped that BS”     In the most recent issue of “Guns and Ammo” magazine Arizona ranked #1 in the USA as a gun owner friendly state.    They also said essentially the same as Ric that Seattle unlike any other area of the state of Washington is very unfriendly to gun owners. Rocky

Lifetime NRA since 1956, NRA Benefactor, USN Member, CBA Member

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Brodie posted this 28 July 2016

Yes Rocky, the carry laws are getting better here in Arizona.   And I know that using handloads for defense may be Gun Shop BS, but the only thing I want to give to an Attorney is enough rope to hang him or her by.

Arizona has changed the self defense laws because of public pressure on its State Representatives.  I am sure that Washington State could do the same if for example gun owners quit griping among themselves, and preaching to the choir, and put some effort in changing things like we did here in Arizona.

B.E.Brickey

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Ed Harris posted this 10 August 2016

As a head's up and FYI,

I have been working with several of the Mousegun Enthusists here and we have decoded the Buffalo Bore recipe and improved upon it. 3 grains of Winchester AutoComp in Starline brass with CCI500 and the Accurate 31-077B or the NOE 78-grain Ranch Dog profile at 0.92” OAL gives 900+ fps from the BerettaTomcat with 2.4” barrel and 1000 fps from 3.4” Beretta Puma or Walther PPK.   Perforates 36” of water jugs and bounces off the trees downrange... With hollow-pointed 31-087T, 82-83 grains in 1:30 alloy, with same powder charge, OAL 0.95,” expands to .50 cal. and does 24” of water jugs, approximating 12-14” of gelatin penetration, which is ENOUGH.  Velocity approaches 900 fps from 2.4” Beretta Tomcat, same as Buffalo Bore load, but with HEAVIER expanding bullet.  Stay tuned... a Fouling Shot article with load data using current suitable powders will appear in a future issue...

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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M3 Mitch posted this 10 August 2016

Ed, you have made the .32 ACP into a “respectable citizen” I think!

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DBW posted this 10 August 2016

Ed, this is looking better and better. Any results with the 31- 90 B yet? I have some 31- 87 T loaded up with some BE practice loads and also starting with 5 gr. 2400 which I will try to work up to 5.6 in my PP. Hope to get to the range in the next few days....DBW

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Ed Harris posted this 10 August 2016

Need to do more function tests with 090B before I can bless it. Berettas run it fine, got somes failures to feed in the Colt. Need to run 100 rds. through Walther PP and also try reducing charge with AutoComp to 2.5 grains using Little Dandy rotor #00 to see how it plays.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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M3 Mitch posted this 10 August 2016

Something that is now obvious to me, but I only realized after reading this thread, is that a relatively heavy bullet will result in a higher recoil velocity of the slide in an autoloader, and other things being equal, probably result in more reliable functioning. Particularly in small cartridges, it also gives more sectional density and generally better penetration, perhaps at the expense of expansion. All basic physics, should have realized all this from the get-go, but I didn't.

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Ed Harris posted this 10 August 2016

Ah, so Grasshopper, you are learning!

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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M3 Mitch posted this 11 August 2016

Well, too soon oldt, too late schmart I guess, but finally doping this out. I guess the light bullet, high velocity crowd has their argument as well, but for serious social use, IMHO, better to have positive function and adequate penetration than “bragging” kinetic energy numbers.

Of course if one takes this line of reasoning as far as it will go, you trade the gun for a knife...

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RicinYakima posted this 11 August 2016

Without penetration; you have nothing. Kind of like procreation. Over expansion is more of a problem than over penetration.

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45 2.1 posted this 11 August 2016

RicinYakima wrote: Without penetration; you have nothing. Kind of like procreation. Over expansion is more of a problem than over penetration. A cast handgun or rifle bullet that performs like a Nosler partition is the best of both worlds. I've been hunting with such since the mid 80's and they work quite well.

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RicinYakima posted this 11 August 2016

I absolutely agree! In the handgun, I have never had that with less than the 358156 HP in soft alloy at a real 1250 f/s. Everything less blows the nose off and the solid shank just stops. But then, I haven't worked with much new stuff in the last 20 years, just getting old and have too many other projects! Best wishes, Ric

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DBW posted this 02 October 2016

Ed, have been working with the 31-87t in my Walther PP and have found that for it to work in both my original Walther mag. and two new Italian mags an O.A.L. of 0.870 was necessary to keep the cartridges from hanging up on the cutout for the mag. catch. So far no problems with rim jumping. Need to do more testing as I am still at the starting load stage as I got side tracked with the .380 acp and the ruger LCP . Much prefer shooting the PP but the LCP is so easy to carry. If conditions allow I will probably wind up carrying the PP but when conceal ability with light clothing is primary the LCP. The threads on both are most helpful.    Appreciate your research......DBW 

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Ed Harris posted this 02 October 2016

0.87 is too short! Both of my PPs feed 100% with OAL 0.945-0.955” using either 31-087T, 31-090B, 31-090V or 31-095T. Are you using original Walther magazines or some aftermarket clone?

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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DBW posted this 03 October 2016

Ed, I tried both a Walther  PP marked mag that came in the military holster with the pistol  and two made in italy stamped mags that I got new from the internet.....DBW

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Ed Harris posted this 03 October 2016

Both of my Walthers were German police turn-ins, made in the mid-1960s, with originalmags that came with them and recent production stainless spares with Walther logo which say Made in Germany.  I use the same 0.945-0.955” OAL in Colt M1903 Type III made in 1914, and two Beretta M1935s, 1944 and 1952 production, all with no issues, as does Dennis Carlini in his PPk and Steve Balthrop in his Colt Type III made in 1920.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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DBW posted this 18 October 2016

Ed, thanks for the reply!! It  caused me to go back and check my whole reloading setup as well as the mags and pistol. I have two dial calipers, normally keep one at my lathe and one at my reloading bench. Brought the lathe caliper in to use as a snap gauge and the other to measure with. The zero's of the two gauges are at different angles which caused me to miss that I had accidentally moved the bezel of one. rechecked all my recent reloads and thankfully the 32 acp loads were the only ones too long. Feel kind of dumb but glad it was discovered before something bad happened. Thank you Lord and you too Ed........DBW 

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Ed Harris posted this 18 October 2016

With larger meplat nose may iminge againt curvature of mag body if OAL exceeds about 0.96, depending upon bullet profile. FMJRN can be up to 0.98", but factory FMJFN is usually 0.96” or so...

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 22 October 2016

i see there is an astra 32 acp auto on gunbroker....this is one of the better spanish pop guns... it just went over my bid limit, but still quite reasonable...

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/592063045

ken

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Ed Harris posted this 22 October 2016

I'm sure that somebody will grab it. These were a fairly well executed Walther PP knock-off. Don't know how hard it is to get spare mags or replacement parts for it, which is pretty much why I have concentrates on the Walther PP, 1903 Colt and 1934/35 Berettas.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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