Hunter Class vs Production Class

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  • Last Post 30 January 2016
Newt posted this 25 January 2016

I have been killing some time looking over match results and have seen a very obvious pattern.  The production class has always out scored and grouped the hunter class guns. Why is this?  Does the extra 2.5lbs allowed in that category make the difference?  Other than that, seems that they are pretty much the same, a stock gun with a few little modifications allowed. There must be something I am missing here?

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 25 January 2016

how about ::

guys that shoot hunter rifles shoot big fat deer at 80 yards .... about 6 shots a year .

guys who shoot production varmint rifles shoot 4000 prairie dogs at 400+ yards ...


also, since i maintain that hunter/production class is really just testing rifles .... i suspect the varmint production shooters sort their rifles a bit more .... they won't keep a 2 moa remmy 700 223 very long ...


just some thoughts... i have seen a lot of hunter rifles shoot mj at 3/4 moa and under . my rem 788 in 223 sporter barrel, for instance ...

ken

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RicinYakima posted this 25 January 2016

I agree with Ken. I shot next to the Nationals Hunter class winner this year in New Mexico. Just a plain low end Savage about 15 years old. But the shooter is a multiple national record holder, winner and has been shooting benchrest for over 50 years. Both of these classes put the premium on shooter skill, not equipment. When you get up to the high cost equipment classes, you have guys who can shoot and don't mind spending the money to have the best stuff.

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John Alexander posted this 25 January 2016

The extra 2.5 pounds is part of the answer. All else equal the extra weight obviously reduces the recoil and twist so makes the rifle easier to shoot the fatter and stiffer barrels probably also play a role.  Neither class allowed modifying the shape of the stock but the heavier (varmint rifles) usually have a wider and flatter bottoms forearms than most lighter weight rifles. Both wider and flatter makes a rifle .  

Non SAAMI throats are allowed in production rifles. So the same trick used in heavy and unrestricted class of forming the throat and a bump die with the same reamer for a near perfect fit is allowed.  No modification of the throat is allowed in hunting rifle.

Finally, in production rifle any modification not specifically prohibited is allowed.  In Hunting Rifle any modification not expressly allowed is prohibited. This keeps the hunting rifles about as close to stock as practical.

Let me know if you have other questions.

John  

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Scearcy posted this 25 January 2016

The extra weight does help, particularly with recoil fatigue in a two day match.  There is a wider variety of stocks available. The broader fore end on some of the varmint weight rifles can be a big help on the bags.  My personal feeling is that the additional weight and broader fore end help manage bullet torque also.  I have never throated my production rifles so I can't speak to the directly.  I'll let someone else with real time experience address the difference throating can make.  Most believe that all else being equal, heavier barrels are stiffer and as a result slightly more accurate.  I think that is true also although its hard to prove.  Short barreled Hunter guns (which allows a slightly thicker contour) have proven to be very competitive. I have always been surprised that the Hunter rifles are as competitive with the Production rifles as they are. Jim  

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Scearcy posted this 25 January 2016

Sorry John, we were posting at the same time.

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John Alexander posted this 25 January 2016

It looks like all four of us were writing at the same time if Ken types a slow as I do.  

John

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Newt posted this 25 January 2016

I did think about the throating thing, but didn't know if it really helped that much. It all makes sense though. Didn't think about being able to have a heavier barrel with that extra 2.5 lbs.

Thanks. Another curiousity filed away!

From the sound of it hunter would be my cup of tea. I just like shooting cast bullets, but most of my shooting is focused on hunting. I just wondered about production class because all my guns are as is from the factory. But they are not target(per say) guns.

Very interesting.

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muley posted this 26 January 2016

maney of the better hunting class shooters are keeping up with the average production shooter. we also have some of the better military shooters doing better than the average hunter/production shooters. don"t be dismayed, compete.

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.22-10-45 posted this 28 January 2016

In what class would a pre-WW1 German sporting rifle in 7X57, dbl. set triggers, with both irons & claw mounted Zeis 4X scope fit in? This old girl barely goes over 6#..though not a true production..action probably military origin as clip guides present. This little rifle is over 100 years old...am I still forced to compete in unlimited class?

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John Alexander posted this 28 January 2016

.22-10-45 wrote: In what class would a pre-WW1 German sporting rifle in 7X57, dbl. set triggers, with both irons & claw mounted Zeis 4X scope fit in? This old girl barely goes over 6#..though not a true production..action probably military origin as clip guides present. This little rifle is over 100 years old...am I still forced to compete in unlimited class? I doubt if there is any way to be certain that it meets the “letter of the law.” It probably can't be known for instance whether the double set trigger or the barrel were after market replacements. Any “latrine lawyer” could probably pick other nits.  

However, I would hope that any CBA match director would rule that it meets the spirit of the rules and allow it to be shot in hunting rifle class.  Especially because the class was started to expand the number of potential shooters. And the rifle obviously isn't one built or selected to push the envelope.

If it was ruled inelegible in hunting rifle class or if there was a protest, the protest procedure in section 14 of the rules should be followed. If the losing side at each level persisted in appealing to the next higher level the final decision would be made by the board of directors.

If the rifle is ruled as not meeting the rules on the day of the match. The shooter has the right to shoot as an unclassified or as “under protest."

John 

 

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.22-10-45 posted this 30 January 2016

John, I'm pretty sure it is all original. Full length matted rib has milled smooth area stamped Henrich Scherping. Dbl. sets patina matches rest of gun. If I wanted to shoot in postal match, could I have gun inspected by my states match director? You see the attendence at shoulder to shoulder is down & only CB matchs are evenings mid-week..and I work nights!:(

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John Alexander posted this 30 January 2016

22-10-45,If you want to be certain that there would be no objections, I would give Mike Kastning, our postal match director, a call or email, refer him to the conversation on this thread and ask for his ruling.  John 

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