Handgun shooting for accuracy

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  • Last Post 27 November 2015
45ACPete posted this 26 November 2015

I'm a former competitive bullseye shooter who is trying to regain at least some level of skill after being inactive--at least with my match guns--for a number of years.  It's a struggle, and at my age (73) I'll never regain Master status, but maybe the Expert level is possible, and I think it's a worthwhile goal.  Formerly, I belonged to a distinguished club in San Francisco, the Presidio Pistol & Revolver Club (now defunct) which had access to an indoor range on the grounds of the Presidio Army Base and two nights a week it was the norm to have the company of a dozen or so dedicated bullseye shooters working to improve their skills.  We all spent at least 90% of our shooting time practicing slow fire.  My shooting now is at a club where only two others have any interest in bullseye, and one of them is only an occasional shooter.  Sometimes I'll have the range to myself, but mostly there are two or three other shooters who will practice emptying their high capacity 9mm's as fast as possible--at about 7 to 10 yds range and usually at a man-size silhouette target.  In the time it takes me to shoot 30 rounds--3 strings of 10 shots at 25 yds, having to ask for cease-fires in between to score and replace my targets, these guys will expend maybe two or three boxes of ammo shooting a basketball sized group on their target.  Our target frames which are 24” wide don't last last long with this kind of onslaught.  I know, to each his own, and who am I to look down on other shooters?  Really, I don't, but I do wonder how we got to this sorry state where marksmanship to most simply means ventilating cardboard so that a target at 20 ft. distance appears to have been shot with 00 buck from 30 yds.  It's the movies, I think, and the sorry state of police marksmanship.  Right now there's outrage in Chicago over the black kid killed with 16 rounds from a cop's gun.  I was at our range recently on a Sunday morning and our club range master was giving a pistol class to kids--in the 12 to 15 age range--and actually timing them with one of those IPSC-type timers, while they blasted away, and then reloaded and fired some more.  Next he may have them moving between barricades!  Well, I just had to vent, I guess.  Those of us who learned to shoot with a single shot .22, and maybe never even shot a repeater until basic training in the military could be a source of valuable instruction, but I think today's typical shooters would be bored by it all.

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fa38 posted this 26 November 2015

You probably need an match air pistol. Shoot in the basement with relatively cheap ammo. I am having the same problem with my single shot rifles shooting offhand and purchased a Anschutz 8002 for practice.

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Brodie posted this 26 November 2015

Pete; Like you I started out shooting bulls-eye with a hand gun.  I shot an awful lot of it until I got hit by a truck and my priorities changed.  Anyway, after moving here to Northern AZ where there was no regular range (there is now) I started shooting with the local Action Pistol group.  I found it to be a lot of fun and my former bulls-eye training held me in good stead.  As I (over time) became one of the top shooters in the group people would ask what my secret was.  I told them: “Everything is basics.  If you have good basic skills the rest comes easily and only with practice.".  Some listened and improved, others just whanged away even faster and only created empties to reload.  You were lucky to have had that group of bulls-eye shooters to practice with at the start.  As an ex-Marine Rifle and Pistol team member told me:  “It is up to you how you practice.  But, you only get the benefit if you practice seriously.  Good dry fire will tell you more than bad shooting at the range."  You can score a 25yd. slow fire with a spotting scope from the bench.  In fact close attention to each shot and its impact will tell you more than the ten shot string about what you are doing or doing wrong. I used to practice by dry firing with a pencil in the barrel of my45 and looking to see where the point poked a hole in the card board I was holding on.  Of course this is only good for recording a group to see how consistent you are. You might also help the range master with those kids, and give them the benefit of your experience both in accurate fire and control on rapid fire.  I have always found that I learned more teaching a subject than anything else I did in reguards to it.

Lastly, Pete, regaining former competence that you have let lapse is always difficult and a trial for me, as I always can't help but remember how good a used to be.  Even if I don't remember how long it took me to get there. Brodie

B.E.Brickey

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 26 November 2015

45acppete ... dang i wish you lived closer ... i would be proud to shoot bullseye with you ..... bet you could teach me a few ... lots of fews .... tricks .

the state recently built a public range 3 miles from my house ... i never go there because i never see anybody that doesn't have at least two bullets in the air at the same time ... bounce stocks ... scorpions ... ( ok, i did like a guy's vz58 ... ) ...

i guess i'll have to run an ad to see if somebody is out there that wants to shoot slowfire .

and yes i shot practical police ...was fun, but i can spray gallon milk jugs at home ...

good luck ; we know we are right ...

ken

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billglaze posted this 26 November 2015

I think most of us see the same thing at the range. My pet peeve is guys with the AR's who can do no better than hitting a piece of notebook paper at 100 yds--some of the time--and are PLEASED! Most can not do that well. Man sized target at 200 yds? Don't make me laugh (actually, cry.)

My grandson, when going thru Army basic training, with a close friend who also belonged to the same club and shot with my grandson in Salem OR, had an interesting experience.

I asked him if they started out in prone, he said “no grampa, we started shooting over tires.” I was shocked. After a little shooting, the Gunny told Matt: “You two guys go back and sweep out the barracks, and then take the next two days off. You two don't need this, you're just burning up ammo and wasting time."

I read an after-action report recently where Company of 36 infantry was engaged by the Taliban; of the 36, the fight ended with us having only 12 effectives. The ranking man was a Gunnery Sergeant (he wrote the report, being the senior man present) and we had a Captain and two Lieutenants down. The chilling statement: “They could hit us, but we couldn't hit them."

What the Hell is going on? Didn't we used to be a nation of riflemen? When the entire teaching syllabus of the rifle has the recruit firing a total of 58 rounds before shipping out--that's right, 58 rounds--it seems to me somethings's very wrong with our “best-trained army in the world." Sorry for my venting, but after the other postings, I couldn't keep it in any longer.

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. My fate is not entirely in Gods hands, if I have a weapon in mine.

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TRKakaCatWhisperer posted this 27 November 2015

fa38 wrote: You probably need an match air pistol. Shoot in the basement with relatively cheap ammo. I am having the same problem with my single shot rifles shooting offhand and purchased a Anschutz 8002 for practice. Anschutz 8002 

Ooooooooooooo!  I'm envious!

I'd like something that good for about 4-500 $.

(dreaming)

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TRKakaCatWhisperer posted this 27 November 2015

Ken Campbell Iowa wrote: ... the state recently built a public range 3 miles from my house ... i never go there because i never see anybody that doesn't have at least two bullets in the air at the same time ...

ken I have two public 100 yard ranges (30 miles away) to haunt.

The one by Blacksburg is insane!  5,000 bullets fired and no one checks targets.

The one by Wytheville is great!  Good folks, serious marksmen, families.

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358156hp posted this 27 November 2015

I occasionally shoot ARs, and I'm encouraged if I can keep all shots on a standard size target at 100 yards. Offhand, of course. Prone give me much tighter groups. I don't shoot off the bench at all. Come to think of it, I haven't been to the rifle range in about three years now. No time, always working.

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Wineman posted this 27 November 2015

I live in one of the most liberal states in the USA, CA. In the Sacramento area I have three ranges withing a 30 mile radius. It is not a chore to find a place to shoot. I consider myself a good shot as long as offhand is not a part of that evaluation. I do not have any issue with hitting a target with iron sights out to 600 yards. To be a good shot, like anything, practice, practice, practice. There were plenty of times where our adversaries had some advantage and we did not and we did not perform as well as we should have. Remember the enemy wants to kill you too. In WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan, we had people that could shoot but the tactics had lots to do with whether we did well or not. Find a WWII veteran who served in Italy and ask them how easy or difficult it was. I am sure you will get the same thing, we could not hit them and they shot the crap out of us.

Dave

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JSH posted this 27 November 2015

My analogies on the subject. If it goes bang and empties the magazine with no jams or glitches, they deem it a success. Firepower is what they all seem to be after. But if they are thrown into to the dirt and not on target a club would serve them better. There are some marksmen out there, but fewer every year.  I feel very fortunate to have as friends and mentors some of the finest pistol target shooters in the state. With a plus of three of them being on the USA shooting team. I also see a lot of folks throw shots down range, and they gleen no information from it. As we all know, it is always the gun or the ammo. Never the operator.

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Wineman posted this 27 November 2015

I am sure age has something to do with it. 40 years ago, the Black Rifle was still a mostly military tool. I did have an M1 Carbine and I did empty many 30 round magazines down range, in a short time period. However the most fun we had at a range was seeing who could hit the smallest target at 25 yards, typically an empty 22 shell or a cigarette butt, with our iron sighted 22's. One friend got tired of hitting the center of the target and would concentrate on hitting the staples that held it in place. Generally he could get the target to fall with five or six shots.

Dave

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45ACPete posted this 27 November 2015

All good comments--thanks, guys. Just to add a bit more information about me, I do practice at home with match air guns, and I do always use a spotting scope--I'd feel naked without it! And, I'm lucky enough to have an adjoining rifle range at our club where I can practice at 50 yds--which I do about half the time. But then, as Billglaze and others have noted, it's the AR crowd that I have to contend with. I earned my distinguished rifleman medal with the AR--at a time when most everyone was shooting the M1A/M14, but of course that was with iron sights--no handicap at all if you've learned the basics first. When I was in the Army and inspecting troops going on guard duty--the sharpest troop was released from duty--I would always ask, “What are the four fundamentals of marksmanship?” Answer: Steady position, Sight picture (or alignment), Breath control, and Trigger control. I still do about 90% of my rifle shooting with iron sights--mostly offhand,I and invariably some guy 30 years my junior will say “I don't know how you do it--I just can't see anything with iron sights.” I can't believe my eyes are so much better than theirs--I've worn glasses since age 13--

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45ACPete posted this 27 November 2015

I just think they're freaked when they can't focus on the target AND the front sight at the same time--never been taught marksmanship. I was lucky enough to have been a member of a service marksmanship team (Army Reserve) for 15 years, but it was my practice at the Presidio, and association with my mentor Bob Chow, that gave me the foundation for what success I had.

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