Aluminum Gas Checks

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  • Last Post 06 October 2015
Lee Wiggins posted this 05 October 2015

  My Hart 30 cal. target barrel is finally worn out and I'll have to bite the bullet and buy a new barrel. Now the question rattling around in my head is , do I dare to use aluminum checks In a nice new barrel. Even freshly machined aluminum rapidly forms a thin coating of alum. oxide on its surface ( I think that is a fact). Aluminum oxide is what surface grinding wheels are made out of. Seems to me that shooting an abrasive coated material would shorten the useful life of a tack driving target barrel. I made my own version of the free check tool and it will make checks out of alum. , copper , or brass stock. I have lots of alum. stock but no copper or brass. I hope to get responses from knowledgeable engineer types in our membership. I'll read opinions on the subject from others , but I'll put a lot more trust in replies from those that absolutely know what they are talking about. Please indicate if your response is opinion or fact.                                               Lee Wiggins  

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Lee Wiggins posted this 05 October 2015

Seems that I posted this in the hand gun thing . think it belongs in General Discussion.

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vulcanchecks posted this 05 October 2015

Lee,

In my experience the aluminum oxide you are referring to is microns in thickness. Aluminum oxide sandpaper is extremely built up. I have personally sold over a million gas checks and shot thousands myself with no reported adverse effects.

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gnoahhh posted this 06 October 2015

I think the only way to put paid to this debate is to conduct extensive tests with identical barrels and loads, using different checks in each barrel, and quantifying the results via instruments that can examine/measure the steel surfaces down to the molecular level. Until then it remains conjecture, gut feeling, and borderline alchemy. I daresay we'll never witness such testing, and shall have to rely on instinct.

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John Alexander posted this 06 October 2015

While we are on the subject of aluminum gas checks can somebody tell me why the installation of a very thin aluminum gas check instead of the traditional ones from Hornady make the sizing of the gas checked bullet require a lot more force. It feels like twice as much. John

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onondaga posted this 06 October 2015

I have used over 5,000 Aluminum gas checks and find no difference in abrasion between Aluminum and Copper. I find no application force difference either when Lee instructions are used correctly with Aluminum checks.

The higher force to apply checks and size bullets disappears when tumble lube and Lee Lube and Size kits with push through dies are used to install checks and size bullets. Specifically, Tumble lube is applied once before size/check and once after size/check when following Lee instructions. The first application of tumble lube works to lube the bullet and the die for it's trip through the die.

If you abuse/ignore instructions and send them through without lube, the bullets will be a lot harder to get them sized/checked through the die than if you follow Lee instructions.

So , yes, they will require a lot more force, like twice as much, if you don't tumble lube the bullets first before running them through the Lee kit die for size/check. The difficulty should be expected for not following instructions as some never will because they habitually follow their own instructions instead of Lee instructions..

The Lee system is not a traditional pressure lube system and the Lee instructions are different from pressure lube systems. Pressure lube systems push the bullet through gas check first and have pre-no lube in that system instructions.  This makes size/check more difficult with more force needed.

The Lee system is the easiest to use with Aluminum gas checks because of the pre-lube, tumble lube step in the Lee instructions......when the instructions are followed, there is no difference between the feel of aluminum versus copper checks through the Lee bullet size/check die.

Many have discussed polishing the inside of the Lee Lube and Size dies also. I have done this to modify the die inside diameter and also to simply get a better finish inside the die. Regardless of the reason, the polishing invariable makes the the system require less force to operate also. The dies generally work fine but an internal polishing also makes them easier to operate.

I hope that doesn't make too much sense for anybody to follow instructions and then polish the die if it needs it.

Gary

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Lee Wiggins posted this 06 October 2015

John Alexander , The alum checks I am making are made from .011 thick hard alum flashing . They actually are easier to push into my Lyman 450 lube/sizer than same bullet fitted with a Hornady check. Bullet is Lyman 311284. Before my barrel went south I think I was seeing slightly better accuracy with the Alum checks than with Hornady checks. I will also mention that I sent a pill bottle full of my checks to John Ardito . He loved them for ease of installation but when he tried to shoot them at his crazy velocities he said they shot all over the place, but worked ok at under 2000 fps. I am puzzled that your alum checks are more difficult to size. What thickness material and hardness is your alum stock? Lee

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Lee Wiggins posted this 06 October 2015

Gary is correct about some lube is needed for sizing. Even in a base first sizing (Lyman 450 lube/sizer) . The die has a film of lube from the previously sized bullet so un-lubed bullets can be sized easily. I tried some tumble lubed bullets and they size a bit easier due to the extra lube. Lee

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billglaze posted this 06 October 2015

John:  I use gas checks by Hornady, (copper) and from James Sage.  (Years ago from Sierra and Lyman, but that info would be pretty stale.)  I have used a lot of Sage's aluminum gas checks, as well as his copper checks, and have never noticed a difference in my old Lyman sizer's effort.  Only time it got heavy on the handle, was when I ran some bullets in to set Hornady checks “dry.”  (No lube)  Definitely a difference in that case.

Bill

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. My fate is not entirely in Gods hands, if I have a weapon in mine.

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gpidaho posted this 06 October 2015

As with most things in our hobby, measurements are the key (I'm a compulsive measurer) As you all know by now 90% of my bullets get the powder coat treatment and this precludes lubing bullets before adding the checks. When you make your own checks you can choose the thickness of materials, aluminum or other within the range your checkmaker will accept and fit check to shank to drive band, this makes things go much smoother. We each have our favorite methods, paper patch, PC, Tumble Lube, pressure lube or with exacting fit no lube, what works for you is fine by me but lubing a bullet before running it through a Lee sizing die doesn't fit my program and I've done thousands just fine without, to each their own Gp

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