Accurate 4064 Powder

  • 4.4K Views
  • Last Post 20 December 2015
LWesthoff posted this 26 September 2015

Anybody have any loading data for Accurate 4064 with 180 - 200 gr. gas check Cast Bullets in .308 and '06?  Burning rate compared to IMR4064 and/or Varget?  Looked on the Accurate website - the only CB loads they have in either of those two calibers are for 5744. Picked up a pound of Accurate 4064 the other day to see if I could come up with a substitute for Varget (which I'm fast running out of) but I'm not quite brave enough to just start out without at least having a recommended starting load to begin with. Appreciate any help - but not interested in guesses. Thanks, Wes

Attached Files

Order By: Standard | Newest | Votes
muley posted this 20 December 2015

grt better fast, Wes. good luck with ur recovery. keep us posted with ur left hand.

Attached Files

Westhoff posted this 20 December 2015

Thanks, guys, for all the help and offers. My search for the perfect(?) load for Accurate 4064 in my particular rifle just hit a snag, and will have to be postponed for a bit.

Week ago last Wednesday I stepped on the little ramp up to my greenhouse floor - it was slimy wet - (this is western Washington, after all) and went down - REAL fast. By the next day it was pretty obvious I'd screwed up my right shoulder, and I shoot right handed. The Doc thinks I've torn my rotator cuff, and since I've already been through that with my left shoulder, i'm inclined to agree.

Right now, I'm waiting for my insurance to OK an MRI and then some repair surgery if required. Until then, I can't even drive a car - can't shift even an automatic transmission and certainly can't manage my 5 speed floor shift pickup.

Maybe back 30 or 40 years ago I could have taken a tumble like that with no problem, but when you hit your late 80's, too many parts have gone off warranty.

Wes

Attached Files

runfiverun posted this 19 December 2015

I just looked in the accurate loading manual and it shows data for both 180 gr and 210gr cast bullets using AA-4064. I'd be comfortable using the start data for the 210gr for both the 180 and 200. the pressure data looks to be a good fit to get things well over 2-k without too much drama with a well fit boolit.

Attached Files

offhand35 posted this 25 October 2015

Wes, I have the Accurate Smokeless Powder Manual Number 2 from around 2002. It only shows loads for AA5744 for cast in the 308W. However, it does have loads for the 30-06 and cast gas checked bullets of 152gr,180gr, and 210gr for multiple powders, including AA4064. Listed fps are in the 2000 to 2286 start fps range, depending on bullet weight. I know you are already into your research, but I could scan this page for you if you would like.

Attached Files

gpidaho posted this 24 October 2015

Wes: Isn't it ironic that now as old men we become more cautious? We could all fill pages of exploits and adventures of youth that should have ended in death or dismemberment, well at least some time behind bars. Now in old age and without the armor of youth we become more cautious. Well, like my old grandpa told me many years ago “No one wants to be ninety three but a ninety two year old” Plodding along the best I can. Gp

Attached Files

jeff houck posted this 24 October 2015

Go to http://gsgroup.co.za/burnrates.html.>http://gsgroup.co.za/burnrates.html. It lists AA4064 on the same level as IMR 4064. Also go to http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Burn%20Rates%20-%202014-2015.pdf.>http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Burn%20Rates%20-%202014-2015.pdf. This shows them as being quite close also.

Attached Files

Longone posted this 24 October 2015

Is this what you're looking for? http://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/burnrates.pdf

Longone

Attached Files

LWesthoff posted this 24 October 2015

I wasn't surprised - but I was relieved. I've finally reached an age where I figure I'm just too damn old to take foolish chances any more. Not interested in walking any steel beams on buildings or bridges under construction, any more, either.

Amazing - how getting old makes you smarter about some things..... and forgetful about so many other things.

Wes

Attached Files

billglaze posted this 24 October 2015

Not a big surprise that you found your powder to be a close approximation of IMR 4064--probably that is why the mfgrs. gave it that number;  you probably would have been on safe ground by using 4064 load data., possibly backing down 10% or so.However, having said that, I admire your caution and common-sense approach.  This is an activity where caution is a real virtue--and a necessity, if one values their gun, fingers and eyesight.Glad you're on track. Bill

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. My fate is not entirely in Gods hands, if I have a weapon in mine.

Attached Files

LWesthoff posted this 23 October 2015

To answer Bill's question, no, I haven't been able to find any relative burning speed charts that show AA4064 in relation to IMR4064 and/or Varget and some of the other powders in that area.

I finally managed to get to the range this morning with a few rounds loaded up for 100 yd. group testing. Remember, this is with my '06 hunting rifle, a Herter U9 (BSA action, barrel shortened to 21". Redfield 4X scope and stock slimmed down and glass bedded; total weight with scope right at 7 lbs.) Bullets were Lyman 311679,lino, weight 191.05 =/-0.15 gr.

Working from info I got from my 50 yd. groups, I narrowed things down to 26.5 and 27.0 gr. Acc 4064, and got a 5 round group at 1.177” with 26.5 gr. I shot two 5 rd. groups with 27.0 gr. The first one, from a clean barrel (no fouler) made 1.435". Second 27.0 gr. group went 1.842".

While those groups are well within “minute of Columbia Blacktail” they certainly won't win any benchrest matches. However, I now have confidence that I can go ahead and try to work up some match quality loads for my Issue '03-A3 and my Production Class .308W. The powder DOES seem to be very close to IMR4064, at least for cast bullet reduced load categories.

Wes

Attached Files

billglaze posted this 16 October 2015

Is the powder listed in any of the relative-burning-speed charts? If it is, a little intuitice caution should come up with a safe starting point. At least, it's worked well for me.

Bill

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. My fate is not entirely in Gods hands, if I have a weapon in mine.

Attached Files

Larry Gibson posted this 16 October 2015

Both AA and IMR 4064 work well in the .308W, 30-06 and similar .30 and .31 cal cartridges with the heavier 180 - 210+ gr cast bullets. As the OP is finding out loads from 25 - 34 gr work well depending on bullet weight and cartridge capacity. The use of a Dacron filler (not to be confused with a “wad") will increase ignition and burn efficiency.

LMG

Concealment is not cover.........

Attached Files

Longone posted this 16 October 2015

Hi Wes,

Took me a while to find this contact @ Accurate but I did finally find it. They have been a great help in the past.

[email protected]

Keith is a balistition with AA powder and will (should) contact you back relatively quickly.

I have used AA4064 in the past in a 223 1000 yard rifle I had, with the short kernels you could really pack the case full.

Best of luck,

Longone

Attached Files

LWesthoff posted this 16 October 2015

IMR 4064, yes! But I'm working with Accurate 4064, and I was unable to find any “official” source that would verify it was essentially the same as its IMR namesake. Maybe it's just that after making it to just 2 years shy of 90, but I've kind of run out of the desire to take a lot of chances, any more.

Wes

Attached Files

tturner53 posted this 16 October 2015

John Wooters says IMR 4064 can give good accuracy down to 60% of Maximum for reduced loads. This from “Propellant Profiles".

Attached Files

LWesthoff posted this 16 October 2015

I'm bringing this string back up because I finally got around to making some experiments with that Acc. 4064 I picked up. As far as I could ascertain, nobody had yet tried it with Casr, so I started out extra cautious, and at only 50 yards.

Rifle was my old '06 Herter U-9 hunting rifle with a Redfield 4X scope. Brass was Winchester '06. Bullets were Lyman 311679 - lino - running 191.5 gr. I shot 3 rounds each, at 50 yards.

Started with 25.5 gr. Acc. 4064 - 3 rds. grouped 1.03". 26.0 gr. put 3 in 0.95". 26.5 gr. gave me 3 in 0.82". 27.0 gr. put 3 in 0.43", and 27.5 gr. opened up to 1.15".

Next time out with Acc. 4064 will be 5 round groups at 100 yds., and it looks like the sweet spot will be somewhere around 26.5 - 27.0 grs. of powder.

I'll keep y'all posted.

Wes

Attached Files

Wineman posted this 30 September 2015

I would agree that really reduced charges of slow powders do present ignition problems. Whether you consider Ac 4064 “slow” or not is a good question. I would consider it on the slow side of Medium. Just slower than 4895 and faster than 4350. My personal preference for cast is something in the 2400, Rx7, 4198 range to get 1500-1600 fps. My best loads have been gas checked and 16.5 of Alliant 2400 in a 30-06. However for long range full power jacketed IMR 4064 in the 30-06 is pretty good. My goals for cast are less recoil and good accuracy out to 200 yards. There are others with more experience and time to shoot that can shoot cast faster, using more powder. My deal is good accuracy and less kick. Cost is not a factor, by the time you get the gear, you are really in deep. Cast is fun, but perfection has a higher bar than with jacketed.

Dave

Attached Files

onondaga posted this 27 September 2015

http://castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=804>LWesthoff

Accurate 4064, like most slower powders develops ignition problems below recommended load levels.

If you are a daring fellow and wish to skirt the dangers, try the recommended ballistic filler BPI Original. Use the start load level for Accurate 4064 or Varget and then use charge reduction software for the velocity you desire. Add the BPI Original to your charge for a 103-105% compressed load. The ignition problem will disappear. BPI Original Ballistic filler:

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/prodinfo.asp?number=BUFFER

I use this filler in 30-06 reduced cast loads with IMR4831 or IMR 7383.

Gary

Attached Files

Wineman posted this 27 September 2015

Pretty much any data that works with Varget will work with AC 4064. While not today's powder the Castpics website has older manuals that show this powder. This lists lead for the 30-06 but not for the 308. In the 30-06 there is three grains less of 4064 for lead vs jacketed 180's. In the 308 make it 5 grains less and see how it works?

http://castpics.net/dpl/index.php/reloaders-reference/powder-company-manuals/18-accurate-arms/73-aa2000

Dave

Attached Files

Keith posted this 27 September 2015

If you do a search for Accurate powders there is a PDF text file which is an older data set for loads with the powders.  There is more than one manual on line so look at them all. 4064 is listed for the 30-06 with your bullet weights.  Starting loads are in the 2100 fps range so if you are looking for velocities less than this you will have to work your way down.  No load for the 308 was given other than with 5744.  I too have a couple of pounds of Accurate 4064 but have only used it for 155 grain service loads with Hornady bullets.  I would as well be interested in others experiences with cast bullets as I have a Winchester 54 which does very well with cast bullets.Keith DVM

Attached Files

Close