Favorite Garand Loads?

  • 6K Views
  • Last Post 10 August 2016
ericp posted this 19 August 2015

Through a series of odd coincidences a Garand showed up at my house. It's a rebuild with a new Criterion barrel. I've never cast for a semi auto before and was wondering if anybody had a favorite Garand load that functions the action.  It seems to me that the small charges of relatively fast powders that we tend to use with cast bullets would not have enough gas to function the action.  

I've done some reading on the importance of maintaining the appropriate gas port pressure to avoid damaging the operation rod.  Any thoughts on the adjustable gas plugs available?  Thank you all for any opinions,

Eric

Attached Files

Order By: Standard | Newest | Votes
Ed Harris posted this 19 August 2015

I use a 160-grain bullet HM2-.312-160-5, cast 50-50 wheelweights and linotype, sized .311” with 40 grains of 4064, RL15 or Varget. Velocity is about 2200 fps. Start at 36 grains and stop once you get reliable cycling.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

Attached Files

ericp posted this 20 August 2015

Thank you, I'll be sure to give it a try. I have the NOE version of this mold, sure wish I'd sprung for the 4 or 5 cavity!

Eric

Attached Files

curator posted this 21 August 2015

180 grain .311/LBT LFNGC made from WDWW under 35 grains of IMR4895 operates my Garand's action and gives good accuracy. Velocity is 1880 fps average with no leading. Every bit as accurate as M2 ball ammo but more fun to shoot.

Attached Files

EvanGuy posted this 21 August 2015

I have a friend with a m1 and also the adjustable/different gas plugs, They make a huge difference. We tried the most bleed off plug and it wouldn't cycle the the second round but the rest worked fine. So we went to the next plug that has a little less bleed off and that cycle the action perfectly every shot. They were factory load steel case. Not sure what brand the ammo was or the plugs. But i know it had loads less recoil then my .303 its actually very comparable to a 30-30 lever gun recoil.  when it had the factory plug in it, it shot just like a 180gr winchester 303 for recoil. i was surprised at the difference in recoil.

 that being said these were factory jacketed loads, so one could assume if you put the solid plug in with no bleed off you may be able to run very light pressures and low fps and still cycle the action, i say they are well worth their money(the gas plugs that it)

Attached Files

ericp posted this 23 August 2015

Thanks guys, great starting points. I've loaded up some of Ed's loads with 4064 (in groups of 5 with 1gr increases in charge) and plan on giving them a whirl tomorrow. I like the idea of a cast 4895 load as I have 6 pounds of it.

Eric

Attached Files

Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 24 August 2015

m1 garand with a criterion barrel, eh ? mumble mumble ... geeze probably smoother than my korean war-abused one i lumped around at my home-away-from-home, ft. leonard wood . when you shoot that thing, crinkle up a smile for my envious soul .

ken

Attached Files

ericp posted this 25 August 2015

I tried Ed's load with the 4064 and got reliable functioning at 39 grs and the group was 3 1/2” @ 100 yds. Will load some more and try sizing .311” (this batch was .310") to see if I can get that to close up some. Alloy was water quenched wheel weights, bnh on this batch has been around 21.
40grs was not different enough to mention.

Eric

Attached Files

ericp posted this 19 September 2015

Work had me in the bush for a while but over the past couple of days I've been able to get back to what's important, shooting! The .311” bullets cast of 50/50 wheelweights/lino (can also be read as “what Ed said in the first place") did the trick, got down to an average group of 2.2” for 10 5-shot groups. I have couple of more bullets I want to try but I'm going to crank out a few hundred of these to play with for the time being.

Eric

Attached Files

Ed Harris posted this 19 September 2015

ericp wrote: Work had me in the bush for a while but over the past couple of days I've been able to get back to what's important, shooting! The .311” bullets cast of 50/50 wheelweights/lino (can also be read as “what Ed said in the first place") did the trick, got down to an average group of 2.2” for 10 5-shot groups. I have couple of more bullets I want to try but I'm going to crank out a few hundred of these to play with for the time being.

Eric PLEASE write up your experiences for The Fouling Shot and take pictures of your target.  This sort of independent validation is always wonderful to have. It would also be interesting to pull your gas cylinder plug (I coat the threads on mine with anti-sieze compound) and photograph how much fouling accumulated on its face in XXX rounds.  This can be removed with Kano Kroil and 00 steel wool. Also remove the operating rod and inspect the face of the piston.  This will probably have some leading on it also. Easily removed the same way. DO NOT remove the gas cylinder from the barrel, indeed if loose you may want to peen the splines on the barrel a bit to tighten it, but on new Criterion barrel it should be a drive-on fit anyway.  Leading in the interior of the gas cylinder is removed with a crisp new .410 shotgun brush with Kroil. Gas port pressure keeps the gas port at the muzzle clear, but you will get leading on the gas cylinder plug, operating rod piston and on the walls of the gas cylinder.  Because the Garand is a vented, open system, this does no harm and is easily removed in regular cleaning. Unlike the AK, SKS, M1A and FN-FAL where you can solder the gun shut if not careful!    The Garand is a wonderful performer with cast bullets.  I have been doing this a while. The very first article I sold the NRA was an “In My Experience” letter to the Editor on how to successfully shoot cast bullets in the M1 rifle, back in June, 1967 when I was a cadet.Back then I used straight linotype, Ideal #311414 and 4895 powder.  Not much regarding the basic loads has changed, but today's cast bullet designs are MUCH better and more accurate.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

Attached Files

ericp posted this 20 September 2015

I was considering doing just that. I need to get my hands on another camera first, my old one ended up a puddle of goo after the chimney fire that claimed my office (and 10 years of load notes/targets).
I did pull the cylinder plug after roughly 200 rounds and have to say fouling was minimal. I used a dab of Kroil and some bronze wool and it took all of about 5 seconds of rubbing to get it clean. Did not pull the op rod, will have to check that out. For lube I've been using a slightly stiffened version of the old NRA alox lube.

Eric

Attached Files

Ed Harris posted this 20 September 2015

ericp wrote: I was considering doing just that. I need to get my hands on another camera first, my old one ended up a puddle of goo after the chimney fire that claimed my office (and 10 years of load notes/targets).
I did pull the cylinder plug after roughly 200 rounds and have to say fouling was minimal. I used a dab of Kroil and some bronze wool and it took all of about 5 seconds of rubbing to get it clean. Did not pull the op rod, will have to check that out. For lube I've been using a slightly stiffened version of the old NRA alox lube.

Eric Sounds like everything is working as it should be! 

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

Attached Files

ericp posted this 02 October 2015

A friend is going to lend me the use of his well used H&R Garand (and a camera!) so I can run some comparative tests. I'll write up the results for a Fouling Shot article. Also, got a 5 cavity version of the 312-160-fn from NOE to up production.

Eric

Attached Files

Ed Harris posted this 02 October 2015

ericp wrote: A friend is going to lend me the use of his well used H&R Garand (and a camera!) so I can run some comparative tests. I'll write up the results for a Fouling Shot article. Also, got a 5 cavity version of the 312-160-fn from NOE to up production.

Eric Excellent!  I look forward to your report.  DO you need any .30-'06 brass?Send me a PM with your mailing address.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

Attached Files

Ed Harris posted this 02 October 2015

ericp wrote: A friend is going to lend me the use of his well used H&R Garand (and a camera!) so I can run some comparative tests. I'll write up the results for a Fouling Shot article. Also, got a 5 cavity version of the 312-160-fn from NOE to up production.

Eric Excellent!  I look forward to your report.  DO you need any .30-'06 brass? CBA Member Bob Mills blessed me with an ample supply, which I would be willing to to share if it would encourage you to test and write up an article for The Fouling Shot.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

Attached Files

ericp posted this 02 October 2015

Ed, I appreciate the offer but I have 400 pieces of F-C that I ran through the M die tonight while watching a documentary on Russian trappers ("Happy People", quite good).  Tomorrow I'll prime and start loading.  I'm looking forward to this quite a bit, nothing like a good experiment.

Eric 

Attached Files

Ed Harris posted this 02 October 2015

OK,

if there is any way I can help, feel free to contact me.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

Attached Files

Wineman posted this 02 October 2015

While generously throated (big words that mean you cant hit the lands with jacketed and still fit the magazine length) watch out for an out of battery firing with the fatter bullets. Yes the receiver bridge is supposed to hold the firing pin if the bolt is not in battery, but wear, manufacturing differences, and plain old bad luck, can make a mess of your rifle. You want every round to act like a “GO” gauge and have absolutely no resistance to closing the bolt. While the lure of neck sizing is always there to “save working the brass” avoid the temptation with the M1 and FL all cases. You don't have to go crazy but get the shoulder back 0.002-0.003” from fired length of base to datum line on the shoulder. Remember that M1 firing pin is just hanging there in space and Newton's first law waiting to let it dimple a primer and possibly set one off on a round that did not quite let the bolt close. Hey millions of cast bullets have gone down the barrels of M1's without a hitch. I am sure the same will happen with yours, but just be aware, it is not a bolt gun and needs just a bit more care when reloading.

Dave

Attached Files

ericp posted this 02 October 2015

Ed, Thank you, may well take you up on that at some point here.

Dave, I always full length size for selfloaders. Reliable and safe functioning comes first, then accuracy. Brass is cheap, guns and my body parts are not.

Eric

Attached Files

billglaze posted this 02 October 2015

At the risk of insulting your intelligence, (which is never my intention) I would mention that, even with tough G.I. brass, somewhere around 5 reloads is about the max. I feel good with, assuming the loads to be near/at service/max. level. And, if you do a lot of shooting, a broken shell extractor is a worthwhile investment. I had a broken case one time that I had to take to the gunsmith, which, he said, gave him “a helluva bad time” extracting it. The other times, it wasn't very difficult, with the use of the extracter. I only shot 20.5 gr. 4759 with the Lyman 311284 bullet; it would give 10 ring groups, with, usually, about 7 Xs off the bench, using the sling, which all my rifles preferred to have used. Did it work the action? No, but I got tired of chasing brass in the tall grass and weeds, and, besides, I only single-loaded for offhand practice, where single-loading is required in the Matches. BTW: The advice about the rifle firing out of battery, with a partly closed bolt, is not only valid, but essentially so. The bolt lug is visible, and checking it in the fully-down position becomes a habit. A good habit. You will probably forget it only once--at least with that rifle. Anyway, hope you find at least a germ of help in the above.

Bill

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. My fate is not entirely in Gods hands, if I have a weapon in mine.

Attached Files

ericp posted this 06 October 2015

No insult by any means. Good things to keep in mind. I have a broken shell extractor on hand should that be necessary. We'll see how long the brass lasts, I'm on my second loading of the 400 pieces I have now. As stated above though, brass is cheap! If it shows sings of giving up the ghost it gets mashed with a pair of pliers and thrown in the bucket for the scrap man.

My goal with this little project is a load that reliably cycles the action and does not foul the gas system in a substantial way. In my mind the Garand is a battle rifle, and a part of the fun of shooting it for me is hitting the gong or propane cylinder 8 times and hearing the PING! after the last shot. Using 39 gr. of powder and a hard alloy it isn't the cheapest rifle to shoot but you get to shoot a Garand and have it function properly. That's enough for me.

If I want to save some dough I can shoot the M96 or K31 with light loads of 2400 and wheel weights.

Eric

Attached Files

delmarskid1 posted this 06 October 2015

I get by with 35g of Accurate Arms 2200. The same charge worked with Win 748. It's not much of a savings but it brings the velocities down and is pretty sweet to shoot.

Attached Files

ericp posted this 06 October 2015

I'd like to try it but there hasn't been any Accurate powders here for almost 3 years now and probably a year or so with Winchester powders. Not complaining too much though since we have a nice selection of IMR, Hodgdon, and some Alliant powders to work with.

Eric

Attached Files

Shadowdog posted this 24 October 2015

RCBS .30-180-FN cast from wheel weights, Lyman Orange Magic lube, 34gr. of IMR 4831. Surprisingly these big flat nose bullets feed perfectly and accuracy is very good for a worn out 1943 barrel.

Attached Files

ericp posted this 17 November 2015

Quick update.

I'm 600 rounds into testing with CMP special and load combo mentioned by Ed. I fired 200 rounds before cleaning the first time (which took a few seconds of light scrubbing with a bore brush in the gas cylinder) and am at 400 without cleaning now. I'm going to shoot another 100 before I clean it again and see where I'm at.

I was messing around a bit tonight and found out that the original Ranch Dog 30-30 bullet feeds perfectly when seated to 3.025". That will be next on the docket after doing the endurance test.

Eric

Attached Files

Wineman posted this 18 November 2015

Funny, that RD bullet shot like a hand full of gravel in my M1903A3 2 groove even at 0.314". I will have to give it a try in my M1. I need to look at my notes regarding the RD loads. The Lee TL-160 with a GC and 1.3 cc of Al 2400 is usually how I roll in the Springfield. The M1 needs more oomph to cycle and for some reason, that light bolt action has me under its spell in the last round of CMP matches...

Dave

Attached Files

ericp posted this 18 November 2015

Dave, I haven't shot the Ranch Dog bullet yet, just function tested a couple of dummy rounds. Sorry my previous post was unclear.

Eric

Attached Files

M3 Mitch posted this 10 August 2016

Just thinking out loud here - I wonder if a small chunk of dry ice pushed into the chamber onto a stuck, broken shell might be a way to get it loose easily? Or are there reasons, unknown to me, that this should not be tried? I would think say 30 seconds to a minute to let the dry ice cool off the brass, then push an appropriately sized brass brush in the broken shell and pull back out.

Attached Files

Close