Win 1886 .45-70 with Ly457125 mold question

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  • Last Post 07 January 2015
cat1870 posted this 03 January 2015

I have an 1886 Win.  in .45-70. (new barrel)..    I'm trying to shoot this rifle at 500+ yards with my 405 grain cast bullets, but they lack accuracy at that range...  Its a 1.5 MOA load at 100 - 200 yards.Has any one tried the Lyman 457125 bullet in the 1886?I guess I should mention that I'm using smokeless powder at the moment with this rifle. Thanks. Gary

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Bud Hyett posted this 03 January 2015

I shot an original Marlin 1895, square bolt, .45-90 at 500 yards with the following results. With the RCBS 45-405-FN and 45-500-FN, Reloder 7 and 2400, the loads stayed within 24 inches at 500 yards. To improve this, I single-loaded directly into the breech with the bullet extended to engrave in the rifling and the groups shrank to 18 inches.

I used a Lee mold for the 500 grain Government round-nose bullet and the rifle shot better, again single loading. This time, the rifle stayed inside 15 inches. Not the greatest, but decent. The differences in the second try were a new hammer spring to make the hammer hit harder, larger aperture for the tang sight, raising the gun before each shot to position the powder against the primer and shooting a long string with three minutes between shots. 

If shooting from a bench, one other item to try is how you are holding the rifle when shooting the rifle from the bench. Secure the fore-end on the rest, but use the rear bags to support your shoulder under your arm pit ad pull the rife into your shoulder. Sometimes this method will work better for two-piece stocks.  

One other item to observe when shooting a seven pound rifle and  500 grain bullet is how your hands are placed when gripping the stick  With light loads, you can feel the rifle torque in reverse thrust to he bullet engaging the rifling and trying to unscrew itself backward off the bullet at the onset of the shot. Practice gripping the rifle securely to keep this action from influencing your shot.

I wish I could remember the name of the buffalo hunter who shot an 1876 Winchester in .45-75 in deference to the Remington and Sharps, he did as well as anyone. These old rifles are fun to shoot at the longer ranges and provide quite a challenge.

Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest

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onondaga posted this 03 January 2015

http://castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=701>cat1870

Bullets at .457” are below marginal diameter for a 45-70. Most will fit a .459 tp .461” diameter bullet to the throat of a lever gun. The inexpensive .459-405- HB from Lee drops un-sized usually very well for a 45-70 lever gun. The hollow base of this mold will limit load level if you use a soft alloy but cast in Lyman #2 and you will be pretty happy with this inexpensive mold in a good diameter for a 45-70 lever gun.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/363401/lee-1-cavity-bullet-mold-459-405-hb-45-70-government-459-diameter-405-grain-flat-nose-hollow-base>http://www.midwayusa.com/product/363401/lee-1-cavity-bullet-mold-459-405-hb-45-70-government-459-diameter-405-grain-flat-nose-hollow-base

This bullet is much more of a long range match bullet than other 405s for the 45-70. I recommend you try this bullet as cast in #2 alloy and simply tumble lubed 45:45:10. The lube:

http://lsstuff.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=31>http://lsstuff.com/store/index.php?mainpage=productinfo&cPath=2&productsid=31

$15/qt is about a lifetime supply. Tumble applied warmed to warmed bullets it dries clear and tack free in less than 5 minutes per coat and 2 coats are recommended for rifle bullets.

Loaded with 40.0 gr H4198 or a case full (55 gr) of Varget, this will likely be the most accurate load you have tried in your rifle. The case full of Varget at 1770 fps  delivers over 1500 foot pounds at 240 yards. That is an excellent Black Bear/ Whitetail load with drop over dead punch power well past the usable range of open sights on a lever rifle. This Varget capacity load develops 26,300 CUP and is well within safety for an 1886 WInchester.

Gary

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Dirtybore posted this 07 January 2015

500 gr bullets in the lever actions creats a few problems that don't exist in single shots.

In order to allow the use of a 500 gr bullet inthe lever actions, the bullet must be seated rather deaply which reeduces powder space. A big bullet like that can be seated out in a single shot, leaving plenty of space for powder.

If and when using black powder, the problem faced is the deeper the bullet seating, the less powder used which therefore lowers the velocity, affectively reducing the range.

If and when using smokeless powder, pressure becomes a critical item due to the weight of the bullet. In this case, powder is limited in order to keep pressures within reason, once more reducing the range.

Theres a reason the Lyman Cast Bullet handbook doesn't list 500 gr bullet loads for the lever actions.

Last but not least, you have to load them single shot because the bullet is too long to cycle through the action.

I have a RCBS cast bullet manual that has loads for their 500 gr flat nos bullet and I believe it would cycle but it's nose is the same length as the 400 gr bullet so guess where all the rest of the bullet is? You got it, it's all body and has to be seated inside the case in order to make it cycle.

500 gr bullets ar great medecine but not in the lever actions.

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