38-55 Velocity

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  • Last Post 31 January 2015
Hook posted this 19 October 2014

I wonder if one of you might be able to help me determine the velocity and pressure of a hunting load I've developed for a new-to-me Stevens 44 1/2 in 38-55. I do not have a chronograph or access to software that can compute the information from the load data.

 

The load consists of a 260 gr gas checked flat point bullet over 20.4 gr of 4227 in Starline cases. The bullet is crimped in the crimp groove. The bbl is 30” long. With the Unertl scope zeroed at 150 yds, the POI is 4” high at 100 and 9” low at 200.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

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jeff houck posted this 19 October 2014

What is the overall length of the bullet, and the overall length of the loaded cartridge? Thanks, Jeff

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Michael K posted this 19 October 2014

I am not a QuickLOAD master, but with your data using QL's default settings QL estimates vel at 1570fps at 20377 psi using a Lyman 375248.  COL at 2.510” Plugged 3.0” COL for giggles, response was 1440 fps at 12890psi. Nil provisions for specific rifles, crimping, alloy, case type etc., in QL aside from COL and max water capacity to overfill.  Your mileage may vary.   Hope this helps.

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Hook posted this 19 October 2014

Overall length of bullet is 0.93". OAL of cartridge is 2.50".

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jeff houck posted this 19 October 2014

Quickloads generates the following data for a.38-55 using a  .378 bullet of 260gr, .93” in length loaded to and overall cartridge length of 2.5", using 20.4 grs. fo H4227:  approximately 17163 psi. and a vel. 1533 from a 30” barrel.jeff

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Hook posted this 19 October 2014

Outstanding, Jeff! Just what I was hoping for. I have to say that the pressure is much lower than I expected. wonder how that equates to CUP?

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jeff houck posted this 20 October 2014

You're welcome. That load is “entirely adequate” for 200m schuetzen work. The pressure is probably a little less than what BP would generate. It should be just fine for a plain base bullet of 20:1 as well. I think I'll try it in my own Stevens 44 later this winter. You should ask yourself  for the Quickload program for Christmas. After you put yourself through all kinds of mind numbing recriminations, budget alterations, selfish justifications and flagellations  etc. you can then buy it with a clear conscience.  jeff

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Hook posted this 20 October 2014

You are a mind reader, Jeff. The main reason i wanted this info was to assure myself that the load wasn't too fast  for plain based bullets. I am out of the GC bullets except for 15 reserved for this hunting. season.. I'd like to stick with PB bullets from now on. This stevens has been a real joy to play with. It is an original action rebarreled by CPA using a Douglas XX with a 10x unertl. The barrel is really too heavy for hunting but it'll have to do. I may just act on your suggestion to buy the software. I just retired and plan to do a lot more load development using cast and powders I have in hand. 

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jeff houck posted this 21 October 2014

There is no consistent correlation between CUP and PSI, therefore no way to accurately convert between the two. QuickLoads always tells you to check your load in a reliable reloading book that was developed by actual test firing of ammunition.  One of the nice things about QuickLoads is that you can vary the burning rate of the powder to match the lot to lot variations that occur between different lots of powder. You do this by chronographing your load, then you modify the burning rate (Ba) until you arrive at the chronographed velocity. The pressure will be changed by the program to match the new data. All of the other variable can also be changed as needed. Everyone who reloads and wants an in depth understanding of what they are doing should get this program. It is truly a magnificent bit of applied mathematics and engineering. You don't by chance live in Idaho do you? Jeff

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Hook posted this 21 October 2014

Jeff Houck wrote: Everyone who reloads and wants an in depth understanding of what they are doing should get this program. It is truly a magnificent bit of applied mathematics and engineering. You don't by chance live in Idaho do you? Jeff

That's a good testimonial for the software, Jeff. As a retired engineer, it sounds as though I would enjoy using it.

Although I have had the opportunity to visit and be overwhelmed by the great State of Idaho, I was born and have spent my 65 years in Alabama.

Pres

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jeff houck posted this 21 October 2014

Being a retired Engineer is perfect. You'll have the math expertise to read the manual and understand each equation given for the variables and be able to do the very fine custom fitting this program allows. Jeff

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Hook posted this 30 January 2015

Just thought y'all might be interested in hearing that the load discussed above does work. This little buck isn't too big, but he is what showed up. The 260 gr cast slug hit dead plumb center in his lungs and dropped him a little quicker than I expected considering it is non expanding and only traveling about 1500 fps. He ran about 30 yds before dropping.

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Hook67/media/7%20pt%203_zpspyykb7kq.jpg.html>

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jeff houck posted this 30 January 2015

Good job! Nice little buck too.  Your comment about the cast bullet not expanding is absolutely correct. In this country we're so dead set convinced that bullets MUST expand or they're some how useless. This is pure nonsense.  If you'll get Veral Smith's book Jacketed Performance with Cast Bullets  (http://lbtmolds.com/books.shtml)>http://lbtmolds.com/books.shtml) you'll learn a wealth of information thats not available any where else. If you want to make a cast bullet that will mushroom you'll find the information to adjust the alloy softness to fit the velocity you're shooting. BUT, you'll also learn about the size of the wound channel created by a flat nosed bullet and the mathematical formula to predict it. Once I learned this I quit worrying about any type of expansion. I shot large flat point bullets and would have a wound channel that went from stem to stern through a deer. You can't get that kind of penetration using an expanding bullet. A large flat point non- expanding cast bullet will give you a decent wound channel AND enormous penetration.   I'm jealous of you 44 1/2 and the Unertl scope. What a find! Jeff

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Tom Acheson posted this 30 January 2015

Agree with the above post. My .41 Mag iron sighted revolver has taken (24) Mule Deer in Wyoming since 1982 and the bullets have always been cast lead with a large flat nose. Entrance and exit wounds are the same size, indicating little or no expansion. The expansion requirement is ill founded, at least in my limited experience.

Tom 

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Hook posted this 31 January 2015

Well, I wasn't expecting expansion. The bullet used even has a relatively small meplat. My surprise was that even with no expansion, low velocity (compared to jacketed loads), and the fact that I dead centered the lungs and hit no major bones, the deer was dead after only a 30 yd dash! I was expecting a slower death and a longer run.

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jeff houck posted this 31 January 2015

My experience is the same. When shot with a low velocity cast load the deer would twitch their hide, look around as though they're wondering what the bee sting was, decide that maybe they should run, take a few steps, think about it again and by then they'd bled out enough that they'd nose dive into the dirt dead by the time I walked the few yards up to them.  Those deer that I'd shot with a modern high velocity round (.270) would always turn about face, run dead out as fast as they could for 100ish yards and then drop dead. All of these deer were heart shot.  What was happening was that the low velocity round did not cause the adrenaline dump that the high velocity impact did. So the deer would run until the adrenaline ran out and the cells had run out of their anaerobic capacity.  Also no high velocity blood shot meat to deal with! I do love my old cast bullet guns. For 30+ years my hunting rifle has been a Ballard in .45-110. I shoot a 350gr. bullet at 1500 fps.  Jeff

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