1886 Winchester

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  • Last Post 31 January 2015
Pop posted this 16 October 2014

I'm in the process of buying a Winchester 1886. The rifle is on it's way to me for inspection and if it is as described, it should be a great rifle. It was manufactured in 1888 and is said to have an excellent bore. The bluing is described as flat, not shiny, and at 85-90%. The photos of the rifle bear this out. I really want to shoot this rifle, if the deal goes down, what kind of round will it take given it is 126 years old?  Will the barrel stand polishing? I will post photos upon receiving for inspection.  Thank's y'all

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onondaga posted this 16 October 2014

http://castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=8333>Pop

I am usually the first to recommend bore polishing.  But see how the rifle cleans and shoots first.

If the bore is blackened and difficult to clean and  maintain, bore polishing will help. Polishing done correctly does not change any bore dimensions, it just cleans and shines what is there.

My Bore Polishing method works well and I suggest you take no shortcuts and make no substitutions. Link to my Bore Polishing method:

http://castbulletassoc.org/view_topic.php?id=8364&forum_id=63>http://castbulletassoc.org/viewtopic.php?id=8364&forumid=63

A round that duplicates the original ammunition bullet weight, shape and ballistic pressure should be used. What caliber is your rifle? TrailBoss Cowboy Loads with cast bullets that are sized to fit the chamber throat of your rifle can be an easy and safe start with rewarding accuracy for original 1886 Winchester rifles. Black Powder substitutes are also popular, Alliant BMZ is wonderfully clean, non-corrosive and has the lowest Extreme Spread of velocity of any BP substitute.

Gary

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Pop posted this 16 October 2014

Thanks for the reply. The rile is a .45-70

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onondaga posted this 16 October 2014

An easy to start mold for the 45-70 is the Lee 1-Cavity Bullet Mold 459-405-HB 45-70 Government (459 Diameter) 405 Grain Flat Nose Hollow Link: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/363401/lee-1-cavity-bullet-mold-459-405-hb-45-70-government-459-diameter-405-grain-flat-nose-hollow-base?cmvc=ProductFinding This bullet design is for light to medium load levels and as cast size is usually OK at .459-.461. The smaller diameter 45-70 molds from Lee are generally too small for 45-70 but can be honed out.

I recommend casting these in Certified Lyman #2 alloy for good detail and fill-out. I get My #2 from: http://www.rotometals.com/product-p/lyman2bulletmetal.htm Scrap Linotype and scrap pure lead at 1:1 makes a BHN 15 alloy the same hardness as #2 but less expensive for practice. Cast the bullets and air cool, try them un-sized and simply tumble lubed before deciding if sizing is needed. Gary

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delmarskid1 posted this 17 October 2014

I like the bullet Gary mentions. Trap door Springfield data shouldn't hurt anything. It probably has a black powder barrel. There was a cut off date when they went to smokeless steel barrels.

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Pop posted this 18 October 2014

How can I determine if the barrel is lack powder or smokeless ?

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Pop posted this 18 October 2014

Gary, I have used your polishing method on several of my rifles. It works great. I can clean them with a feather duster, lol.

The Lee mould you suggest is definitely on my list. I have decided that even if this del doesn't go down, I'm getting a .45-70, tired of putting it off. I will most likely get a newer Miroku, I have two Miroku's now and I have to sy, they are among the finest rifles I have fired, both .38-55's.

Past time to put a big stud in the vault, lol

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RicinYakima posted this 18 October 2014

Pop, If it was made in 1888 it is black powder. Smokeless barrels will be marked as nickel steel or state on barrel for smokeless powder. HTH, Ric

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Pop posted this 18 October 2014

Thank's Ricin. So...I've never put black powder in a brass case be educational. Got any ideas where I might start to gain some knowledge?

Would smokeless loads, loaded to black powder pressures be acceptable, or should I put it in the vault and enjoy my fine addition, then go buy a Miroku?

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RicinYakima posted this 18 October 2014

If a knowledgeable gunsmith says it is mechanically safe to shoot, light smokeless loads are fine. Just stick with loads for the 1873 Trapdoors. Of more importance is to just shoot lead bullets. Jacketed bullets are much harder than the barrel was designed to use. Ric

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6pt-sika posted this 20 October 2014

Pop if you get the 1886 bring it by the gunsmith shop in Orange . I'd like to see it !!!! We're open monday , tuesday , thursday and friday 10-5 . 

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Pop posted this 21 October 2014

Update on the 1886...

Well, I got it late last week and it was as advertised, really nice for being so old. The bore looks to be excellent, IMHO, I can detect no pitting and although not brite and shiny, it will be soon.

Now the other half of he story. I had been talking to my brother about the rifle and he was keen to see it. I called him after I got it and he proceeded to try to talk me out of it all day Sat.

Well, after several adult beverages, I relented. It was exactly the rifle he was looking for, and althought it was a great looking piece, it wasn't what I wanted really. So, this morning you have two very happy brothers. The ink wasn't dry on his check before I swerved into the gun I really wanted.

Yesterday I bought a 1885 High Wall in .45-70. It's a 125 year Winchester Anniversy model and it is gorgeous. I have another Miroku High Wall in .38-55 and it is one of my favorites.

Will post pics when I get it. Brother Dan took off with his rifle (before I changed mu mind I guess, lol) and before I coul even get a pic. I will tell him to bring it to visit Ricin. By the way, nice to have a neighbor on here.

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Pop posted this 21 October 2014

Sorry Ricin, I was talking to the wrong guy, lol.

Sika, your the one who has a play date with the old Winchester, lol.

Will visit myself soon, show you this pretty Winchester I got.

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RicinYakima posted this 21 October 2014

Pop,

Well, I feel very neighborly to folks in Virginia! That is where my forefathers where brought as indentured servants. They left for Kentucky in 1781, but I don't hold that against the Virginians.

Ric

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Pop posted this 22 October 2014

Ricin,

Don't feel too bad, my family first arrived here around 1750. Our name was O'Brady when they left Ireland and they were Catholic. I those days, it was bad enough being Irish, but being Catholic would put you about even with an African slave. So they decided to convert before they landed in New York. The pope got wind of it and took our O away.

Also among our family legends, is the story of a long lost uncle who arrived in New York in 1862 and was going to join the family in VA.

Well, before he knew what was happening, someone took him off that ship, put him in a new blue suit, and then marched him South. The family has never been able to live down the shame of having a Yankee in the family.

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Wineman posted this 23 October 2014

I had a Win 1894 made in 1903 in 38-55. Barrel was toast, dark, dingy and rough. I did not try polishing it but factory jacketed would keyhole at 10 yards. It was from my FIL and had an octagon barrel and full mag. Sold it to someone who really wanted one. It is hard to get them back from the brink, but polishing is only a bit of time and some Chrome polish. The worst is nothing changes and time to make a choice. I probably jumped ship early on this one, but after a month of normal and aggressive cleaning it did not seem like a shooter was in the cards.

Dave

Dave

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Dirtybore posted this 31 January 2015

Pop, you want knowledge on black powder cartridge reloading? Go to The Fouling Shot Issue #215, Jan-Feb 2012, “Loading Black Powder Cartridgles, For Beginners" Issue #216, March-April 2012, “Paper Patch Bullets in Black Powder Cartridges, for Beginners" Issue #225, Sep-Oct 2013, “Black Powder Cartridge Reloading-Additional Information"

The author, John Rhodes wrote these three articles for beginners so you should find them informative, helpfull in any case.

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