1884 Trapdoor on the way

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  • Last Post 27 October 2014
tturner53 posted this 02 September 2014

I've taken the plunge and after all these years wanting one I've finally bought a Trapdoor Springfield. It's ugly on the outside but supposedly excellent inside. The price was right so we'll see. It's a sight unseen deal so my fingers are crossed. Looking over this sight there's a lot of load info to get me started but I'm wanting to read up on these old war horses. Any suggestions for some good reading material or other advice is welcome. My long term plan is CBA matches and CBA postal matches, maybe even silhouettes locally. I'm pulling out my old copy of “Forty Years With the 45-70” by Paul Matthews for starters. Have to stay busy while I wait for the big brown truck of happiness to stop at my house. This leaves only one on my bucket list, a nice Krag. 

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giorgio de galleani posted this 02 September 2014

Had a good 1884 springfield , very good , it had the Buffington sight and being much younger I was able to see the sights.

I sold it because I was not sure of my memory and attention to details  ,I feared double charges of powder.

The 45/70 is a great caliber and the trapdoor is an important piece of American history.

I use a Ruger Carbine N°3 and a couple of Marlin 95 (Modern)

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Bud Hyett posted this 02 September 2014

There is a book for black powder loading for the .45-70 written by a man named Wolfe. It is very comprehensive and informative. The book has a lot of research on the original loadings, the cartridge design, rifling design and what really works. Welcome to the .45-70 world, great fun and adventure. I only load smokeless for my Marlins and Siamese. http://www.4570products.info/Loading-Cartridges-for-Original-45-70-Springfield-1.htm>http://www.4570products.info/Loading-Cartridges-for-Original-45-70-Springfield-1.htm  

Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest

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Dale53 posted this 02 September 2014

This is THE book for the Trapdoor Springfield. I even incorporated some tips for my other Black Powder Cartridge Rifles.

I would also consider adding (after the above book) Mike Venturino's and Steve Garbe's book:

http://www.shopspg.net/SPG-Lubricants-BP-Cartridge-Reloading-Primer-books-spglubeBP.htm

With those two books, you should be “good to go"!

Dale53

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 03 September 2014

you might study mid-1800's native american history.

i understand they found quite a cache of trap-doors just lying on the ground on one occasion.

something about big little horn or some such. if you find one with ” GAC ” scratched on the stock you have an interesting one.

ken

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tturner53 posted this 03 September 2014

Thanks for the ideas and suggestions. I'll gat both those books, they look like just what I need. The TV show 'Gun Stories' had an episode last night re. the Trapdoors and such . It's Part 1, more to come.

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chuebner posted this 04 September 2014

Good advise here.  I have all three of the books recommended and have absorbed a lot of information from them.  IMHO, stick to real blackpowder and big soft bullets.  My M1888 Springfield really likes the Lyman 457125 “beagled” to produce .462 bullets.  I shoot as cast with NASA lube and 60-65gr. Schuetzen or KIK 2F.  Rifle still shoots honest 2.5 to 3” groups at 100yd. with the issue sights.  Plus you can't beat the smell of blackpowder smoke on a humid Florida morning.

Charlie

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tturner53 posted this 04 September 2014

I'll be looking back thru my collection of old “The Fouling Shot” magazines for Trapdoor articles. I lucked out and bought a nice set of the magazines so have almost all in paper copies up to the present as well as the new CD version which is handy as hell and has a good index. My TFS collection gets re-read a lot. Another really good resource is the CBA's match results. Many times I've simply copied the work of a winning match shooter for my own guns! What can I say? I do plan to shoot real BP but am also going to try some old loads I got from an Ed Harris article re. using Bullseye and Unique in matches for 10 years. I didn't need another project but here goes anyway.

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tturner53 posted this 11 September 2014

The eagle has landed! My 1884 Trapdoor arrived and is as I expected, EXCEPT the firing pin is froze in place sticking way out the face of the breech block. I can't close the action on a loaded round as the protruding firing pin hits the primer. I'm soaking in Liquid Wrench but am hesitant to operate. I have a 3 day inspection period (Auction Arms rules) but don't want to forfeit my return rights. Dang! It has a pretty good bore as far as I can tell, never seen one before. Zero pitting, smooth and shiney, strong looking lands. This gun could be a keeper considering the price and good bore but I'm not sure how much trouble ($) this stuck firing pin deal will be. On a side note I am amazed at the groups that have been shot by CBA members with these things considering the sights.

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gnoahhh posted this 11 September 2014

Ah, don't worry about it. It'll save having to go to the trouble of cocking the hammer. Just put a round up the spout and slam the bugger shut. Note: you gotta be really quick so it latches up before it goes off.:P

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 11 September 2014

if it were mine y i could get the breech block out i would cycle it between pb bath and thermal shock; about 400 f. would be ok, with a pencil torch. your pin and block are probably soft anyway. in the hot cycle give the pin a whack with a plastic hammer. if you have an ultrasonic, buzz it while in the pb bath.

hey, you secretly wanted another project !!!

ken

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tturner53 posted this 03 October 2014

Update; I had to surrender and take the block to a gunsmith. After two weeks of trying to unscrew the firing pin retaining screw he just drilled it out. I can get another for $5 and a firing pin for $7. There's a guy on the net who is Very helpful, even figuring out the thread specs for me (NC) so I can chase the screw hole out a little. It's kinda nasty. He says 3/16x26TPI oughts do it, although the SAE stuff didn't exist back then and it is really some 'Whitworth' type which I've never heard of. The end of the tunnel is in sight, I'm anxious to shoot this little gem. The firing pin that came out musta been used hard, it was in three pieces.

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tturner53 posted this 20 October 2014

Finally got to shoot the TD. Shoots pretty good, best load was about 2” at 50 yds. For a starting point I'm happy. I tried 2F and the Lyman 457193, Lee 405 HB. Also the Ranch Dog 350 over light charges of Bullseye and Unique. Moving out to 100 yds opened things up, maybe 8” or so but it was first day trial run and my first real effort in the BPC world. All in all a real hoot. The new firing pin is just laying in there, the old retaining screw had to be drilled out and I need to get a special tap to clean up the hole for the new screw. Shooting from a bench I learned two things right off, recoil is significant and it's hitting about a foot high! I'll be checking out the old 'Carbine' loads. I think it may at least be 'ok' for some CBA postal matches. We'll see.

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tturner53 posted this 27 October 2014

Update; I found an outfit that carries British Standard Whitworth style taps. They sent me a couple 3/16 x 24 TPI Whitworth tapered taps and they seemed to fit the Trapdoor firing pin retaining screw hole in the BB perfectly. Cleaned up the residual old screw material left behind from having a gunsmith drill out the stuck original screw. It's GTG 100% now and I may use it in my last CBA Postal Match this year, the Deer Hunter.

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Tom Acheson posted this 27 October 2014

I may getting one soon. The owner says it loves AA 5744 with an NEI mould but I can't recall the weight.

I need to find out what constitutes a bonafide “surplus” rifle for a Trapdoor for consideration to be used in the CBA Big Bore Military BR event. Were some actions sent to a military armorer who replaced the barrel (or ?) etc. and then it still can be called surplus? 

Didn't Paul Matthews do a book on the Trapdoor?

Hey Tim...Deer Hunter Practical is offhand, don't forget!

Tom

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Bud Hyett posted this 27 October 2014

I do not think there is clarity on this subject of what is Big Bore rifle; I've seen Trapdoors with the buckhorn 1873 sight to the Buffington 1884 sight plus rifles with added receiver sights. My feeling is the added receiver sights should shoot in the modified iron sight class.

When I shot my Trapdoor with smokeless, the loads giving 1,000 fps to 1,100 fps shot best; usually the 400 grain range bullet shot better. These loads were with a 94 PB / 4 Sb / 2 Sn alloy and fairly hard bullets. I've gone back to shooting only black powder in the Trapdoor, less confusion with seven .45-70 rifles.

Paul Mathews has an excellent book on his experience for loading the .45-70: Loading the Black Powder Rifle Cartridge he has written possibly six books on the .45-70 and this is the one specifically for black powder loading.

Excellent website article on black powder loading with suggested loads for various calibers: http://www.stewartdawge.com/Introduction%20to%20BPCR%20Loading.htm>http://www.stewartdawge.com/Introduction%20to%20BPCR%20Loading.htm

Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest

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