45/45/10

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  • Last Post 14 May 2014
Dougs94 posted this 31 March 2014

Just made up my first batch of 45/45/10 but left out the part about cooking off the JPW. Already lubed a batch but have not sized yet. They are completely dry and not tacky at all. Should I go back and cook off the mix I made before after sizing lube? Is there going to be a problem by using it as is? Thanks in advance!

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Brodie posted this 31 March 2014

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B.E.Brickey

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Dougs94 posted this 31 March 2014

I'd go back and remove the lube and cook the mix.

I was afraid I'd hear that.:( Maybe run them through the sizer as is then re-tumble with the cooked off mix?

If not, what's the best way to remove it from somewhere around 1000 bullets?

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Brodie posted this 31 March 2014

If you just want to make the lube go away heat the bullets in a container (not you wife's good cooking pot) in cooking oil.  I'm told this works great with bullet lubes, or you could try just heating them slowly and see what happens.  Heat drives certain volitile's off from the wax and alox.  The vapors are prone to explode so keep it away from open flame use electric heat in an extremely well ventilated area.  You might consider using a crock pot or something similar.  There is a thread where Onondonga describes his method , I would look it up and follow it.   You could also boil the bullets in water the waxes and greases would float to the top where they could be decanted.  I buy my 45,45,10 from white label lube.  My wife gets nervous when I experiment with things. Brodie

B.E.Brickey

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 31 March 2014

just to make sure we have an alternate opinion ,( g ) , if the bullets are intended for plinking, or other general use, ... not scientific research ... i would just shoot them as is ... it is still enough lube even if imperfect.

if the lube ” fails ” during sizing ... just dunk them again in your by-now-corrected 45-45-10 mix.

fwiw, i messed with home brew, then called those nice people for a quart.

ken

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Dougs94 posted this 31 March 2014

My “scientific research” consist of seeing how close to the tin cans we can get.  I was hoping to be able to go ahead and run them through a Lee sizer, then re-lube with the cooked off formula. Looking for hot plate now, wifey won't be happy if I start “cooking off” in the kitchen.

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delmarskid1 posted this 01 April 2014

If you still feel like removing the lube you might try boiling them. The lube will float if it comes off. Myself I'd shoot 'em up without sizing.

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oscarflytyer posted this 01 April 2014

Shoot them! I really didn't know what cooking it down really meant first batch - so am sure I didn't! And they shot fine!

Second batch - STILL not sure I know what really constitutes 'cooking it down,' but 'cooked' it longer second batch. Really see no diff - yet to shoot. But I just can't imagine it matters much, as some say they shoot pure JPW...

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onondaga posted this 01 April 2014

I have been using 45:45:10 for years, home made and commercial. The biggest problem with any tumble lube is users put way way way way too much on. If the bullets have dried and any amount is visible or feel-able as an even coat on the bullets, guess what!!!! you did a way better job than the rest of the people trying it do,  that goop the stuff all over the place and then call it messy to work with.

Shoot them! ( the bullets )

Boiling down the home made mix is done to reduce the amounts of deluents  in the JPW so that in the next step of making the stuff, the odorless mineral spirits replace the previous deluents and guess what.....it doesn't matter to the JPW and the LLA except to control consistency. The Lube is unaffected. as long as the bullets are lightly and evenly coated they are lubed. This stuff can also be thinned at ANY time you need to make it thinner for ease in getting a lighter coat by adding Spirits. The spirits will evaporate naturally pretty easily and are only for controlling consistency. The correct consistency for 45:45:10 is about like Hershey syrup at room temperature. If it gets thicker because of evaporation of the spirits .....Just add more spirits till it is right. This does not damage the 45:45:10 or even LLA in any way whatsoever.

Shooters claiming they need a heavy gooped on coating are failing at convincing their firearms that their bullets are the right size. No lube compensates for bullets that are too small and good bullet fit will even allow a bit of ear wax rubbed on bullets to be an effective bullet lube. The fit is way more important than any lube.

Gary

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Dougs94 posted this 01 April 2014

:dude: Thanks to everyone for all the good info. I'm looking forward to loading some up.

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Dougs94 posted this 01 April 2014

UPDATE!

Okay, so I cooked off my mixture. Started out with a half bottle of LLA, half the Alox bottle of JPW, and maybe a TBSP of mineral spirits. Made a nice, full Alox bottle. Worked well as far as nice light coating, non-sticky, and dried fast. Now I have about a quarter bottle of the stickiest, nastiest, gummiest gunk I've ever seen. :shock: My “new” thrift store pot is toast (this stuff will NOT come off!). Feel like I wasted a half bottle of LLA and afraid to use this stuff for fear of welding a gun shut. Good news is, I now have a dandy hot pate, a good bit of JPW,  and most of a quart of mineral spirits!

K-mart hotplate...$22.00 JPW......................$6.00 Odorless MS.........$5.50 thrift store pot......$3.00 1/2 bottle of LLA...$3.00?

Being able to buy this mix for $15 a quart.....PRICELESS!!!!

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onondaga posted this 01 April 2014

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=2109>Dougs94

Take your bottle of gunk and thin it by adding Mineral spirits a little at a time and capping and shaking. Be methodical! When you get it thinned and shaken well to the consistency of room temperature Hershey syrup,  that is the design usable consistency. 

It will get thick again and again if cap is loose. Just re-thin with spirits any time you need to. That does not subtract lube. it only adds the correct amount of solvent to give you the right viscosity for tumble lube.

you don't need to high heat fry the JPW and LLA in the pot to boil off tons of deluent solvents and conditioners from the JPW.  Medium heat and the tiniest boil is hot enough and works fine. Boil the JPW and LLA till it's volume decreases by 1/4 to 1/3 . You are then done with that step. when the boiled down JPW and LLA cools completely, then add your measured amount of spirits, stir thouroughly and bottle up to save for use.

Does this sound like what you tried to do? Well that is the right way to do it according to the inventor. You cook off the deluent solvents  of the mixed JPW nd LLA by 1/4 to 1/3 , cool completely, then add spirits, mix and bottle.

I buy it now anyway but made it for years. A picture of my old setup when I posted on making the stuff. My pot never got ruined and cleaned up easily with spirits then dish soap/water: http://s30.photobucket.com/user/rhymeswithwhat/media/Mixing.jpg.html>

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Dougs94 posted this 03 April 2014

I must've cooked it too long, it reduced to 1/4 of the original volume. Never got to a boil but smoked quite a bit for about 15 minutes. Really really thick now. I should learn to read instructions.

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Dougs94 posted this 03 April 2014

Cooked up a new match this morning and followed the instructions. It seems to have worked out nicely. Got all my bullets lubed up and they're already dry with a nice, thin coat of not so sticky lube. ;}

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onondaga posted this 03 April 2014

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=2109>Dougs94

That is great Doug! The stuff has always worked great for me either home made to the formula or the commercial 45:45:10 from LsStuff> White Label Lube at $15/qt> >Gary > >

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csparks1106 posted this 22 April 2014

Pardon me while I hijack this thread. Never made my own lube so I'm going to ask you to walk me through each step. First off, 45, 45, 10 is percentages, correct? So, if I use a 4 fl oz bottle of LLA I need to measure out 4 fl oz of JPW, right? Then I need to place both items in a saucepan and cook them until they turn liquid and let them cook down to about 75%. How are you detremining the amount cooked off, as most saucepans have no means of determining volume. Do you pour it back into a measuring cup until you have about 6 fl oz's? Assuming all this is done correctly, how much odorless mineral spirits need to be added now? The math is eluding me. If I'm not mistaken the MS is added after the concotion has cooled. Stirred in with whatever is handy, spoon, stick, whatever. Have I missed anything? Any and all thoughts are appreciated.   Thanks in advance.

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onondaga posted this 22 April 2014

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=7953>csparks1106

Yes, 45, 45, and 10 are percentages by volume.

Using the volumes you mentioned, 4 oz LLA + 4 oz JPW mixed is a 8 oz total. Cook that down as you said.

10% of that 8 oz mixture is .8 oz SIX teaspoons equals 1 liquid ounce so .8 oz equals 4.8 teaspoons of mineral spirits needed for the formula.

I measure the volume of LLA + JPW again after it melts just by using a small stick and noting depth of liquid on the stick in the pot. The boiling down by volume after that is not an exact thing. Just simmer off about ¼ to 1/3 of it.

Cool it completely and add the spirits. The amount of spirits is not crucial either but ending up with a cool liquid with a viscosity about the same as Hershey syrup is important. Use the amount of spirits that will do that..

Gary

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csparks1106 posted this 22 April 2014

Sorry, I was trying to figure the formula based on the addition of the MS volume. I could have asked my sister in law, a math teacher, but figured I could get all my questions answered in one place. Thanks again.

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csparks1106 posted this 08 May 2014

Got a chance to lube up some more bullets tonight. This time I warmed the bullets on 170 degrees in the oven for about 5 minutes and tumbled them in a 1 gallon orange juice jug with the 45/45/10 heated in the microwave for about 35 seconds. It appears to be much nicer. We'll see in the morning when I get a chance to look at them. Gary, that last batch was done at room temp. I definitely see the advantages with this method. Quick question: after sizing, are the bullets warmed again in the oven, or just the lube to apply the next coat? Thanks.

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onondaga posted this 08 May 2014

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=7953>csparks1106

I warm the bullets and lube every time, your 170 degrees will not melt the lube coat  that has dried but the pre-warming may over heat the lube.  . My oven warm is 160, if yours will go lower, that is safer. I don't pre warm the oven, I just turn it on warm and put the bullets in for 5 minutes.

Gary

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Recluse posted this 10 May 2014

onondaga wrote: http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=7953>csparks1106

I warm the bullets and lube every time, your 170 degrees will not melt the lube coat  that has dried but the pre-warming may over heat the lube.  . My oven warm is 160, if yours will go lower, that is safer. I don't pre warm the oven, I just turn it on warm and put the bullets in for 5 minutes.

Gary

I just use a heat gun and get the bullets hot to the touch of my hand. I then use the heat gun to heat up my old, wrinkly bottle of 45/45/10, shaking it often to ensure it's all the same temp. A “Z” squirt on the bullets, swirl-tumble-swirl-tumble and dump them on a wax paper covered cookie sheet, then repeat with a new batch of bullets. :coffee

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EdS posted this 13 May 2014

I just got started with the 45/45/10, after using the Lee Alox liquid for many batches. My question is, can the mix be “too” warm? I placed my 1 qt jug from White Label in the sun for about 10 minutes, and my cast bullets on a pie pan for about the same time. The bullets were warm to the touch but not too hot to hold when I lubed them. Same with the lube, noticeably warm but not really what I'd call hot. The 45/45/10 was “thinner” than I expected when I opened the new jug and transferred some to an empty Lee bottle used to dispense the lube. Rather than being the consistency of chocolate syrup, it was somewhere between choc syrup and water. I lubed the batch and some of the 45/45/10 puddled on the pan under the bullets. I mixed and swirled the batch getting an even coating, although a very thin one. I'd appreciate critique and feedback. Thanks, Ed

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onondaga posted this 14 May 2014

http://castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=2604>EdS

Sounds like you are getting familiar with the stuff. A couple of hints, The viscosity you describe sounds fine for slightly warmed 45:45:10 and true to formula. Second, if the lube is puddling around bullets when you spread them to dry, you have used way too much lube and/or not tumbled long enough.

Only a thin coat is needed, this is a surface lubricant, you don't need to use a lot of the stuff trying to fill grooves that don't touch the barrel.

It does sound like you could go hotter if you wish. I go 160 Deg. F. for the bullets as I explained and Nuke the lube too. The tumbling for one minute vaporizes off some of the deluent spirits and thoroughly coats the bullets lightly if you have not used too much and that “too much” leaves the bullets dripping puddles as you say.

Bullet fit is much more important than this or any other lube. The better your bullets fit the throat, the more the importance of lube approaches zero.

Gary

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