Reduced Shotshell Loads

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  • Last Post 05 June 2014
Buhler50 posted this 07 December 2013

Many of us have interest in low powered rifle/pistol loads. Now with this excellent Shotguns section perhaps we can develop/document a discussion of reduced shotshell loads. The following excerpt of an article by Harvey T. Blake found in Dope Bag in the May 1971 issue of The American Rifleman I recently found starts my contribution.

"Surprisingly, however, few reloaders ever attempt to go in the other direction, though it is a fact that shells can be loaded down almost to the velocity of a BB-gun and still function reliably. One day, with nothing better to do, I decided to see how low I could go and still have my shells fire reliably. In these tests I used as little as 7 grs. of Red Dot powder with one ounce of shot, and never had a “blooper". Needless to say, the noise levels of these loads were very low and recoil negligible...All of my firing has been done in a 12-ga. single barrel gun."

According to a reference from Ballistics Lab at ADI Australia using ADI AS30N (which some writers claim is Hodgdons' Clay)in 12 gauge: 11 grains powder = 851 fps @5970 psi in Winchester AA compression formed cases, Win209 or Fiocchi 616 primers, WAA12 wad and 1 1/4 oz shot.

Regards, Bruce KD6DRU

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6pt-sika posted this 07 December 2013

I wouldn't call them “reduced” as such but just about all of my shotgun loads in the past 3-4 years have been lower pressure loads in deference to being old and or Damascus barreled guns .

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Ed Harris posted this 07 December 2013

Frank Marshall and I used to load low velocity, heavy shot loads in 12-ga., using 1-1/2 oz. of No. 6 shot at about 900 fps, which was very effective in a Winchester Model 12 riot gun with cylinder bore barrel. We killed alot of game with it. Those loads were assembled in Federal paper Champion target hulls, using old fashioned plain nitrocard and fiber wads with no shot sleeve with 14 grains of Unique.

I also loaded a bunch of low recoil 1-oz. loads of 7-1/2s with 12 grs. of Bullseye, which worked well. Have to experiment with the wad column to get the crimps to fold correctly, but once figured out they were both mild and pleasant.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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6pt-sika posted this 07 December 2013

Was Marshall a member at Fairfax Rod and Gun ? Also what year did he pass ? I used to spend a fair amount of time up there 25-30 years ago shooting skeet and some trap .

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 07 December 2013

I HAVE LOADED 12 GA DOWN TO 5/8 OZ SHOT ... long time ago... probably red dot ...nothing trick about it.

well, also loaded a case full of cornmeal to shoot wasp nests with ... good to about 20 feet ...

farm boys are easily entertained ..

ken

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Shadowdog posted this 07 December 2013

I've reduced both shot and powder to make low recoil rounds to train my grandson in shooting 12ga. as opposed to buying him a lighter gauge gun, besides he likes my old Wing Master 12 ga. just fine. I don't remember the exact load, but I used Cheddite 2.5” hulls, and the payload was 5/8oz. Hardly any recoil at all and fun to shoot!

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Ed Harris posted this 07 December 2013

Yes, Frank was a long time member there. He was not a big skeet ot trap shooter, but you would have been there at the same time. If memory seres, he passed about 1990.

user=1088>6pt-sika wrote: Was Marshall a member at Fairfax Rod and Gun ? Also what year did he pass ? I used to spend a fair amount of time up there 25-30 years ago shooting skeet and some trap .

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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RicinYakima posted this 07 December 2013

I am working on some reduced velocity loads for my J.C. Higgins SXS 12 gauge. Brass cases, Mag-tec primers with 100 grains of FFF black. One hard card wad then two felts and topped with 18 0.316” cast balls and one card on top. The top wad is about 1/8” below the mouth so I run a bead of hot gun glue over the edge. These burn very clean and almost no smoke so I can get the second barrel on those charging sage rats. The only real down side is starting cheet grass fires from the prone position. Ric

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R. Dupraz posted this 08 December 2013

Reduced velocity loads with 100 grns. of fff ? What's a full load ?

RD

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RicinYakima posted this 08 December 2013

RD, I don't know, just feeling my way along. Ball speed was close to, if not, supersonic with 9 balls and 80 grains. So I doubled the number of balls, but patterns dropped 6 inches on the target at 25 yards. It feels like a high base 2 3/4” when I shoot it. Am I over the edge here?

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Shadowdog posted this 08 December 2013

RicinYakima wrote: RD, I don't know, just feeling my way along. Ball speed was close to, if not, supersonic with 9 balls and 80 grains. So I doubled the number of balls, but patterns dropped 6 inches on the target at 25 yards. It feels like a high base 2 3/4” when I shoot it. Am I over the edge here?

Here's some useful information from an old Lyman black powder handbook showing drams=grains of black powder. This may matter when loading black powder shells, otherwise it's all but useless information now a days.

2 3/4 drams=75gr. FFg. 3 drams=82gr. 3 1/4 drams=89gr. 3 1/2 drams=96gr. 3 3/4 drams=102gr.

3 3/4 drams, (102gr) will give aprox, 1,125fps with a 1 1/2oz load. 1,225fps with 1 1/4oz. 1,250 with 1 1/8oz. 1,325fps with 1oz.

This ain't chipped in stone, but may give you an idea of the old loads, what was considered min and max for a 12ga. 2 1/2” shell.

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R. Dupraz posted this 08 December 2013

Rick:

RD, I don't know, just feeling my way along. Ball speed was close to, if not, supersonic with 9 balls and 80 grains. So I doubled the number of balls, but patterns dropped 6 inches on the target at 25 yards. It feels like a high base 2 3/4” when I shoot it. Am I over the edge here

I really don't know, When reading what you wrote, I still had ML's in my brain. But I see now that it's a breach loader. All I can say for sure is that I have found that the old equal volumes of shot and powder for best patterns rule still rings true for the ML SG.

RD

RD

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billw_willy posted this 16 February 2014

I down loaded 12 Ga for my daughter shooting a resurrected Win. M-97 pump (have 3, 2 needing work), the one I rebuilt is neat as all get out with a CBA patch on the stock. 15.0 gr RD, whatever shot cup and filler wads necessary in paper or plastic hulls, fold crimp and some were folded deep on top of an OS wad and worked better than the flat folded crimp, 209, anywhere from 1/3 oz. (3X0.33 buck), 2/3 oz. (6X0.33 buck) and up to 1 oz. Lee 6-cavity #4 or 0.33 00 buck, #5-#8 shot and 8 or 9-00 buck or 1 oz. slugs--Lyman sabot, 0.662 RB, Foster and Lee Key slug.

I loaned it to her with some light loads and a cop boyfriend took her to the range and shot some loads he said would not eject the empties, turns out he shot 3” shells in a 2 3/4” chamber, magnum #4, didn't seem to hurt it but I'll get it back along with the S&W M-63 22 RF to clean and examine them and look for another shotgun and revolver for her.

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Duke M posted this 18 February 2014

When my wife and I shot cowboy in 12 ga. we used 55 gr. 2Fg with 7/8 oz of shot in cut down AA hulls roll crimped. The big cushion wad was soaked with melted Crisco and when that load hit the shotgun knock down targets it really slammed them, much better than smokeless trap loads. Judging from the big smudge left on the targets the “pattern” was really tight even from sawed off doubles.

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bandmiller2 posted this 05 June 2014

Really shotgun pellets at high speed lose velocity fast you are ahead if you load more, larger shot, at a lower speed. Anyone here tried the “metro system” the long barrel extension to reduce report. Frank C.

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