New to the .38-55

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Last Post 29 October 2013

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Shadowdog posted this 26 October 2013

Some years ago I bought a Winchester 1894 SRC in .30WCF. The bore was a classic sewer pipe and wouldn't shoot anything with better accuracy than around 12” at 50yds.

This month it went to JES Reboring and came back a .38-55, 5 groove .376 1:15 twist. I received an Accurate 38-250D mold, but didn't have time to cast and load any for my first range session, so I made do with LEE 379-250RF bullets cast from w-w alloy loaded in new Star-Line cases primed with Rem 9 1/2 LRP. Best accuracy came with 24gr. of IMR4198, 2.5” at 50yds off a bench. I figure this can be improved using bullets from the Accurate mold and sized bigger, or unsized. A Saeco .377 die is all I could get at the moment, and .377 was what the LEE's were sized to, they drop at .381” from the mold. I just cast some from the Accurate mold, w-w alloy at .379” cooled. I'm thinking about loading these unsized, opinions?

Any powder suggestions or loading info would be appreciated. I don't expect bolt rifle accuracy from a saddle carbine, but I'm hoping for 2-3” at 100yds. I haven't ruled out duplex black powder loads.

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Little Debbie posted this 26 October 2013

It sounds like your rebore is pretty close to my Winchester 94 rifle in 38-44. It's a commemorative model with about a.376 bore. I've had the best luck sizing the Lyman 375449 CG to .378. I've got a .381 sizer but I get severe throat leading. I thinks its just too big for modern bores in .38-55 which seem to be the same as .375 H&H. I wanted to use a light load of Red Dot or Unique with this bullet but velocities were too low. 50% of the bullets impacted sideways at 50 yards. This bullet drops at 288 grains from a soft alloy. I went to 18 grains of SR 4759 and it was miraculous. The groups at 50 and 100 yards with the Redfield receiver sight are nearly MOA. This rifle is one the most accurate cast bullet rifles I have. My alloy is soft, lead recovered from my bullet trap that has a lot of .22 RF bullets in it. I don't know what twist you have, but I'm guessing the bullets you mention are short enough to stabilize at lower velocity. The .38-55 seems to be an inherently accurate cartridge, and I'll have to get a lighter shorter mold so I can use pistol powders. The only “rule” about the .38-55 I can pass on is to anneal your case mouths every 3 to 5 loadings, especially since you will be crimping for the tubular magazine. No more split case mouths after 5-7 loadings. The current batch of W-W brass I'm using is on its 15 loading.

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Shadowdog posted this 26 October 2013

Thanks Little Debbie, I do have some SR 4759 laying around here and I'll try some next reloading. Got the annealing done shortly after the brass arrived. Unique was the worst powder I used for the first range session, no tumbling, just poor accuracy with 2400 running a close second in the trash target department.

.378 sizing dies for Saeco are on backorder until January, from Midway anyhow. I used straight wheel weight alloy in the LEE mold and after 65 shots had no leading what so ever, a pleasant surprise to see a clean sharp bore after running 3 patches through.

So far I've been treating this cartridge like a smaller version of the .45-70.

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Little Debbie posted this 27 October 2013

No leading is a great sign. I'd try a few of your Lee bullets as cast, They may work depending on how your rifle is throated. 4749 seems to be out of favor, but I've used it for years in cast loads and really like how it works in .25-35 up to .458. Let me know how it goes.

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argie1891 posted this 27 October 2013

my marlin really likes 9 gr. of unique behind the lyman 265 gr. 375449 without or with the gas check. I truly have shot a few 1 inch groups with this load at 100 yards. most run about 2 inches at 100 yards. argie1891

if you think you have it figured out then you just dont understand

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Shadowdog posted this 27 October 2013

Little Debbie wrote: No leading is a great sign. I'd try a few of your Lee bullets as cast, They may work depending on how your rifle is throated. 4749 seems to be out of favor, but I've used it for years in cast loads and really like how it works in .25-35 up to .458. Let me know how it goes.

You're right about SR 4759 being out of favor, seems Mike Venturino builds up 5744 every chance he gets in almost every article he writes, (he must own stock). I tried it, but went back to SR 4759 and IMR 4227. Before last week I never tried IMR 4198, but it shot best with the LEE bullet of the five powders I tried, (IMR 4198, 2400, Unique, IMR 4895, IMR 4227).

The LEE mold drops at .381". The Accurate 38-350-D I just got drops at .379” and is flat base. I think I would rather try the Accurate unsized and pan lubed soon as I make up a “kake kutter” for it.

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Shadowdog posted this 27 October 2013

argie1891 wrote: my marlin really likes 9 gr. of unique behind the lyman 265 gr. 375449 without or with the gas check. I truly have shot a few 1 inch groups with this load at 100 yards. most run about 2 inches at 100 yards. argie1891

Unique works very well in my .45-70 Springfield with just about any bullet I cast for it. No fuss or worries, dump 10gr. in a primed case, top off with lead and shoot! I tried the same 10gr. load in the .38-55 and things didn't work out so well. I'll give 9gr. a try!

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Little Debbie posted this 27 October 2013

Argie,

What twist is I does your Marlin have? Don't worry, I've shot some unbelievable groups with my .38-55. I fear being called a liar by those who have not witnessed the groups being shot. I believe you. The .38-55 can be magic.

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CBA Member

Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 27 October 2013

our m94 with a new pre-chambered numrich barrel is giving us about 2 in. at 50 yards, tried 3 molds, best so far is the lee 250 gr. at 0.281 shot as cast from 16 b metal; . not much fine tuning yet, 10 gr unique makes round holes. tang sight.

ken

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CBA Regional Director

Tom Acheson posted this 27 October 2013

I'm new to it also! As well as lever actions.

Wed. I bought a Marlin 336 that has been re-barreled with a 1:12 Green Mountain, octagon barrel. It has a MVA 6x scope on it.

I used the owner's handloads to try it out before I bought it. They were 18.0 grains of AA 5744 and a 250-grain FPFB 2-grease groove bullet sized to 0.379". Don't know the MV. At 200-yards from the bench I kept 10-rounds in the middle of an 8” dia. steel plate. We did not measure the spread but it wasn't more than about 2 1/2” or so. At 100-yards on a paper target the group was 1 1/8". So I have no complaints about its accuracy.

The bullets are locally made and sold ant I got slightly over 100 with the gun and 100 WW cases and 50 Starline cases.

So now for a mould. The owner said that the gunsmith who put it together used a “tight chamber". Makes you wonder if the Saeco #571 or the Accurate 38-340C, both tapered, would work?

I have all of the powders mentioned a above but am also thinking about trying black powder but not sure which one. Have Swiss 11/2 and 2 f and KIK 2f.

Looking forward to having some fun with the “new” gun!

Tom

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argie1891 posted this 29 October 2013

quoting post Argie,

I don't know the twist, my rifle is a marlin cowboy model. it does not have micro rifling, but cut Ballard type. for hunting I took a small white tail with reloader 7 for 1650 fps.

if you think you have it figured out then you just dont understand

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CBA Member

giorgio de galleani posted this 29 October 2013

Here are some of my 375 bullets.

I shot them in a CZ 602 I bought used in 1975, my first centerfire rifle.

A good recent Ruger NÃ‚Â°1

An Uberti Winchester high Wall 38-55, heavy barrel , very wellmade and accurate, too much muzzle heavy for an old crippled shooter like me.

An outrageously rattling original Winchester 94 ,post '64,that was trying to open the lever shooting strong loads. Some fool bought the thing,it was a commemorative model ,commemorating non important people.

A light ,sturdy well made Little Sharps made from the Armisport Chiappa factory ,the engraved luxury version is sold by Lyman.

Bullets from the right.

Lee bullet . Do not like it.

Lyman single cavity, bought in 1975. 375248 .Faulty design,too slim in the nose and too large in the bands.

SAECO gang mold,too small a meplat for tubular magazines,they drop 376 from an alloy of old wheel weights. Accuracy barely tolerable.

Wonderful new product of Accurate Arms,5 cavity aluminium, I asked for their design nose and ogive ,bands .379 and grease grooves for Lee Liquid Alox. I can boast that I am a designer of this bullet.

In my soft alloy they drop a little smaller than .380 , and their weight is around 340 gr.

Good plinking and target bullets up to 100 meters.in the Chiappa Sharps.

Old RCBS bullet 37-250-FN,Diameter is around 378 ,its weight around 270, very accurate in all the rifles ,it would be perfect in your slow twist lever actiom repeater.

Some years ago I killed a roe deer female with the CZ, and wanting complete penetration I ordered from Veral Smith a 4 cavity mould.

Recent LBT torpedo,300 grains 380 diameter ,sized to 379 it is accurate in the 375H&H rifles. I'll take it a-chasing the deer,fallow deer in january .

Somewhere upstairs ,on Mount Athos ,I have a Lyman 378674,single cavity ( I hate single cavity moulds) with which I got good accuracy with the heavy High Wall replica.

For your Malin repeater I would use the RCBS gas check bullet for hunting and a shorter LLA bullet for targets and fun shooting.

I am told that the slower twists of some 35-55 do not like 300 grainers .but they are marvelous in all the 375H&H.

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CBA Regional Director

Tom Acheson posted this 29 October 2013

Giorgio,

Nice photo!

Good for a new .38-55 owner to see some of the variability in designs as well as learning of personal experience and preferences.

Thanks!

Tom

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Shadowdog posted this 29 October 2013

Nice selection of molds you have there. My re-bored Winchester has a 1:15 twist and I don't plan on shoving anything heavier than 255gr. through it. I have the LEE mold and have shot some with it, but not to my satisfaction. The groove diameter is .376” the LEE bullets were sized at .377". I have cast some Accurate 38-250-D and will load them lubed, unsized at .379” and see how things go.